Sennadar Forums

First of all, I want to congratulate Fel on finishing 'The
sword of fire' book. I cant really explain, express, describe, how much I like his work. I mean, its not only excelent, its coherent also.

Also praises for the way the Dolana-Haley situation is going. With only one another as only obstacles for their love (lycantrophy not beeing an obstacles anymore), we will finally see them at their best together I think. Though becoming a kind of vampire its kinda disgusting you know? Dolana might end up vomiting quite a lot in my opinion...

And now comes the true eason for this post. I had 2 good questions, but only remember one right now, so I will post the other one when I remember it. The question is: is the werecat population not balanced since Tarrin appeared?

I mean, the fact is that there are 7 females for every male. We have like 6 males known in the story(Tarrin, his son, Jeri, Thean, Triana's son and I know there was another one) and around 20 females known. Ok, obviously not all werecats in Sennadar appear in the story, though Fel gives the impression that there is only a small number of them. Maybe a little over a hundred as much?

Yes, this may make me sound like me looking for flaws in the story, or bugging Fel because I am a perfecsionist idiot, but I am just curious. Fel might not have an answer for this, and I can understand if it is so, its like a very weird observation. But if he could throw some light over the numbers or composition of the werecat population, it would be great.

Actually, if you think about it, there is a balance right there. The werecats are a very power race, and if they had great numbers as well, then they could literally take over the world. Not that they are interested in that, but it's a strong example. For there to be a balance, and not make them all too strong altogether, they would have to be small in numbers. And there we are.

Hmm, now that it's been pointed out to me, I wonder why there aren't many?

The children grow up very quickly. Tarrin has got 4(?) already. The mothers seem to be protective of the young. Werecat females seem fairly prolific. So why aren't there more?

Does Triana go around making them infertile? To appease the druid elders? And Tarrin is a special case?
Or because of their nature, they get into lots of fights and die quickly in their teens?

Perhaps not their teens, but I would assume that fights and accidents are the major causes of death.  And don't forget that not all the females were able to have children, either because they aren't interested or can't get a male interested or what.  

Not to mention that most of the other races have a very strong dislike, almost hatred, towards them. Centaurs, and I believe, most Werewolfs will for example attack and kill Werecats whenever possible. Or that is my impression from what was explained in the books.

It is actually stated somewhere that werecats get more and more infertile the older they get. Mists pregnancy was magically induced, Kimmi is very young, and Jesmind got maybe lucky (or the goddess interfered?).

So, Triana would be nearly unable to conceive. But it looks like the werecats are in for a minor population explosion in the next hundred years or so, when Jasana, Tara and Rina (and of course, Eron) get fertile. Julas chance to conceive would be pretty good to, at least compared to the older werecats.

It would be funny to try and run some numbers through population models to see how you had to adjust the birth-rate to account for the low death-rate (i.e. nearly immortal)
Borsic

Actually I thought another good reason for the low number of werecats. We all know that werecats had a kind of civil war after the Breaking. Old peaceful werecats VS new rage prone werecats. This could had probably put them near extintion. If we add this to the fact many in Fae-da'Nar dont mind werecats ending up dead, we have a good reason for their low numbers.

ishen_wolf wrote:Actually I thought another good reason for the low number of werecats. We all know that werecats had a kind of civil war after the Breaking. Old peaceful werecats VS new rage prone werecats. This could had probably put them near extintion. If we add this to the fact many in Fae-da'Nar dont mind werecats ending up dead, we have a good reason for their low numbers.

That and  Centaurs and Werewolves will go after them if they get a chance too.

Then again, we've seen what happens when the wolves try to get Tarrin.  Maybe they'd have a bit more luck with say, umm....  Damn, I don't think they'd be able to get any of them, with MAYBE the exception of Jesmind.  The rest of them have some type of magic to blow through them.  LOL

lochar wrote:That and  Centaurs and Werewolves will go after them if they get a chance too.

Then again, we've seen what happens when the wolves try to get Tarrin.  Maybe they'd have a bit more luck with say, umm....  Damn, I don't think they'd be able to get any of them, with MAYBE the exception of Jesmind.  The rest of them have some type of magic to blow through them.  LOL

Nec Hercules contra plures. Werecats are lone, recluse race. If the Werecat has no much Druidic touch in them (or at least not more than Werewolves or Centaurs), then... And with Centaurs in battle formation, working together, the rage of a Werecat can work against him/her.

Not to mention the facts, that the one proce for mistake in dabbling with Druidic power is death.

ishen_wolf wrote:Fel might not have an answer for this, and I can understand if it is so, its like a very weird observation. But if he could throw some light over the numbers or composition of the werecat population, it would be great.

This is actually something that I've been wondering about for a while, but from a different perspective; who the heck are the kids gonna screw?  Jesmind has six kids, and so none of them can mate, and Tarrin has what, three kids?, and they can't mate with any of Jesmind's kids or grandchildren...it seems like most of the werecats in the story right now are related.  The population is so low, and werecats so instinctual that they can't inbreed, that I have to wonder how they're going propogate enough to keep a stable number.

This is easily fixed, of course...we just have to be given the impression of enough other werecats in the universe to make the population size large enough to allow for, after deaths and the restrictions from relations, a stable population.  Right now, we don't seem to have one.

thermopyle wrote:
This is actually something that I've been wondering about for a while, but from a different perspective; who the heck are the kids gonna screw? Jesmind has six kids, and so none of them can mate, and Tarrin has what, three kids?, and they can't mate with any of Jesmind's kids or grandchildren

Oh I guess i might have missed something here But i thought Jessana was Jesminds first child ? it's Trianna that has 6 children by blood.  
That would make a big diffrence. as Neither Kimmie or Mist are Trianna's Children not even adopted by her.  
Tarrin himself was turned so no blood connections to any of them there unless the bite imparts more then just wereness?.
That means Eron could mate with any of Trianna's daughters He just can't mate with Jesanna, Rina or Tara.
Rina and Tara are able to mate with any male were cat around ( Except Eron ) even <sic> Trianna's son.  
Jesanna is the only one of Tarrins children that won't be mating with any of grandma's side of the family.

...it seems like most of the werecats in the story right now are related. The population is so low, and werecats so instinctual that they can't inbreed, that I have to wonder how they're going propogate enough to keep a stable number.

There are hint's through out the books to other werecats we haven't met.   but there is still that 7 to 1 raito of females to males but given their imoritality and they only stay mated for about 7 to 10 years before the blowups occur.  
I would assume there are some other pairings around like Tarrins not quite the same but close... and i think Tarrin may have a couple of one nighters in the future to help out some of the others.  Not aranged by him of course  :o

This is easily fixed, of course...we just have to be given the impression of enough other werecats in the universe to make the population size large enough to allow for, after deaths and the restrictions from relations, a stable population. Right now, we don't seem to have one.

We shall have to see I don't think tarrins kids will have a big problem finding mates.  Remember if Grandma calls all of the Werecat's will answer.
NO ONE TELLS Trianna NO!   Twice anyways...  ;)


Phantom

phantom wrote: That would make a big diffrence. as Neither Kimmie or Mist are Trianna's Children not even adopted by her.  

Huh.  For some reason I was thinking Mist was related to Triana.  Oh well.  So who is Mist related to?

That would make a big diffrence. as Neither Kimmie or Mist are Trianna's Children not even adopted by her.    


Huh.  For some reason I was thinking Mist was related to Triana.  Oh well.  So who is Mist related to?

Humm thats a good question i don't think we have ever been told.

I did do some rereading  and i was wrong about Trianna
She only has 4 Blood Children.

"Shayle is my daughter," she replied. "I have five children, cub. Jesmind you know.
There's also Shayle, the next oldest, Laren, my first son, Nikki, my youngest daughter,
and you. Think of the others as step-siblings."

So that makes 4 plus tarrin   and of course Jula is Tarrins Bond Daughter and through that Trianna's Bond Granddaughter i guess.

So Trianna would now (as of the End of the Sword of Fire ) have  7 grandchildren   Jula, Jesanna, Eron, Rina, Tara, Zyri and Jal    
that's enough to keep her hopping even with out having to go with Jesanna to rein her in.

Maybe we will find out soon more of Mist's past  as well as kimmies past .... Humm i wonder if Laren had some thing to do with kimmies turning ?  



Phantom

let us not forget a few  facts ,first werecats are territorial and loners  for the most part ,as well as being wanders .It`s highly probable that their numbers are spread out further that we know . The fact that Kimmi stayed around Mist is one of the reasons she was thought strange by the rest also your not including the time a female will spend raising her kits. the advage time we have been told is fifteen years from birth to adulthood.A Female wouldn`t become pregent in that time period because it would divide her attention from the kit she was allready raising.This also would help to keep Werecat numbers down.And you might remember that when ever Triana got a group together it was in a hurry and she only called the ones she thought could get to her in the limited amount of time she gave them. Also simple genetrics would place the number of werecats in the area of one to two thousands.if only to mantain healthy bloodlines.