Tarrin dilemma (might be SPOILER)

[zedd]

what can Tarrin do to avoid confrontation with the gods of Sennadar?

One possible solution that  might be acceptable for Tarrin and the gods is exile: Tarrin stays in this dimension.To make this solution acceptable to Tarrin a gate would have to be created to allow is friends and family to visit him.

note: i have never talked to Fel about this, so what i am writing is purely my imagination working. In inviting others to do the same i hope to have some fun seing how many possible solutions we can come up with.  

Fel, if this kind of thread bothers you just ask an admin to delete this (i don't think i can delete it myself)

[Lochar]

That leaves a big problem.  What happens in several thousand years when the Firestaff becomes active again?

[Dash]

But if he doesn't go away, then would the firestaff have another go at transforming him? Turn him back to full god again? The firestaff might have influenced things so that something gets turned into a god. Isn't that its purpose (or one of its purposes)? It could do it again.

Anyway, next time it happens, there are better protectors. Tarrin is feral, his daughter isn't. She might be enlisted to protect the staff next time. They needed one Weavespinner to start the restoration of the weave. So he was the best protection at the time. Next time, there will be 9 (I think, not including Tarrin) Weavespinners, so it should be better protected. And if there was another breaking, then Tarrin might die anyway.

[Hearly]

Some things I've been thinking about, Tarrin in Chapter 11 already decided to stay to save Niami backlash from her brothers ans sisters (at least thats what I took it to be) To me his choice to Stay there is all the Proof the gods need to know that he values Niami enough to leave his family, and that he is nothing like Val was so the fear they have against him is unfounded...

[Flame_Champion]

I wouldn't go as far as to say the fear is unfounded. As they've shown in the past, the Gods have proven to be a spoiled childish lot with a penchant for tunnel vision. I would think based on their history that even the thought of Tarrin still existing would be enough to send them running for cover, IMHO...

[Lochar]

I wouldn't go as far as to say the fear is unfounded. As they've shown in the past, the Gods have proven to be a spoiled childish lot with a penchant for tunnel vision. I would think based on their history that even the thought of Tarrin still existing would be enough to send them running for cover, IMHO...

Yes because no matter how long he stays away from Sennadar, he's still a native of the dimension.  He can always grant himself the Priest spell to go into the Astral and go home.

[Flame_Champion]

I forgot about that possibility. Good one....

[Lochar]

But if he doesn't go away, then would the firestaff have another go at transforming him? Turn him back to full god again?

Same thing would happen to Tarrin as if Val had managed to use the Firestaff again.  Double power.  That would probably mean more power that Aiyse.


Question Fel, exactly how much power DOES the One have?  I remember Niami mentioning that even the weakest of the Sennadar Gods would make most of the other dimension gods fear them.  Or is it because Tarrin hasn't truly accepted his divinity, even when his sword does temporarily break down his barriers.

[RedManX]

also if he makes the desion to not come back and to to what ever he is planning to do with the rest of his life (untill something powerful enough to kill him comes along). would the gods even be willing to settle for that? if alows them to banish him whats next? they arnt going to likely setle for him out of sight... he is always a risk only thing they would be confertable with is him being dead... just like it said in the begining when he fought val the first time. they have to kill him to be happy.

or am i wrong in my understanding?

[Shadowhawk]

As far as I understand there are two things that makes gods of Sennadar... "uneasy" about Tarrin.

• He is demigod, so he has limited (wrt gods) divine capabilities. On the other hand Tarrin can use all his power in this dimension. So when god is forced to fight him he must (?) use his icon to use full possible power... and risk being destroyed. So they fear him, because he can kill a god. In fact, he killed one (Val) and currently plan killing another (The One).
• He is created by Firestaff, so he is outside the order, is abomination. Gods are bound by rules, to maintain Balance among others, he is not. And he has the record of laying waste to large geographical areas, killing... and is feral.

I can think of the way to resolve this points

• He is follower of Niami and Fara'Nae. They are Elder Gods. He is mortal, if with God soul. Elder Gods can kill they folower with a thought. Is it still true with respect to Tarrin? If so, there is something what can stop him. Granted, both Goddesses opt for Tarrin...
• Tarrin is a (demi)god, among others, of duty. I think he can bond himself with something akin to geas with the Oath to preserve the Balance. Well, it is what he wisshes doing...
• What if Sennadar will face a threat which is too large for Spyder, e.g. Demons invasion? Having demigod in reserve (especially if he learns how to true kill Demons) can be very smart things to do

[Lochar]

I can think of the way to resolve this points

• He is follower of Niami and Fara'Nae. They are Elder Gods. He is mortal, if with God soul. Elder Gods can kill they folower with a thought. Is it still true with respect to Tarrin? If so, there is something what can stop him. Granted, both Goddesses opt for Tarrin...
• Tarrin is a (demi)god, among others, of duty. I think he can bond himself with something akin to geas with the Oath to preserve the Balance. Well, it is what he wisshes doing...
• What if Sennadar will face a threat which is too large for Spyder, e.g. Demons invasion? Having demigod in reserve (especially if he learns how to true kill Demons) can be very smart things to do

1. No, they can't just kill him with a thought.  No even Aiyse can do that now.  Remember, she tried to remove the life given to Val, but as the Firestaff had changed him, she couldn't.
2. He can release himself from his own Geas, just like he did with Shiika.
3. Spyder said that she had used magics that would have sank continents to remove some demons from the Gate room.  If she starts failing, she can either get Jasana to help her if she's old enough, or I don't think a demon army  is going to do much good if she pulls a couple of mountain ranges down onto Haven.


Also, Fara'Nae isn't an Elder God.

[Shadowhawk]

1. No, they can't just kill him with a thought.  No even Aiyse can do that now.  Remember, she tried to remove the life given to Val, but as the Firestaff had changed him, she couldn't.
2. He can release himself from his own Geas, just like he did with Shiika.
3. Spyder said that she had used magics that would have sank continents to remove some demons from the Gate room.  If she starts failing, she can either get Jasana to help her if she's old enough, or I don't think a demon army  is going to do much good if she pulls a couple of mountain ranges down onto Haven.

1. Val was god. With gods body (icon, to be more exact). Tarrin is only demigod, with mortal body. I don't know if Val was follower of any Elder God. Bounds imposed by Aiyse on herself my prevent her on killing humans with thought. Tarrin is a Priest (in a way) of Niami (she granted him spell of Banishment during the battle of Suld). I don't know how functions this killing by mere thought by Elder God, but if everything that is needed is for subject to have mortal body, that would point why Val could not be killed in this way, and why Tarrin can. Well, that is the question only Fal can answer, I think.

2. I think that suitably convoluted (devised) geas/Oath can be devised, with some kind of logic loop (like "this statement is false" ), which will prohibit him from breaking the Oath, or releasing him from it. Like "I will not release myself from this Oath". Besides, Gods could make some kind of unremovable artifact, like Tarrin's shaeram, which will detect releasing or breaking the geas and alert the Elder Gods. Besides, it need not to work, it need to convince the Gods that Tarrin will respect and provide for the Balance. As if he was not doing it because he is who he is...

3. What if some mad Wizard summons Demon Lord again, and Demons starts invading Sennadar not thru Haven Gate? In case of another Blood War (even if dragons choose to participate from the start this time) there will be need for as much help and power as one can get. Hmm... next book is "Demon's Bane"...

Also, Fara'Nae isn't an Elder God.

Uhh... my mistake.

[Lochar]

I agree with the second and third parts, but on the part of number 1.  The reason that Aiyse couldn't destroy Val is because when he used the Firestaff, it changed him from a creation of Aiyse's to a creation of the Firestaff.

Remember, when Ahyria (forgot her name exactly, Elder goddess of fire) came to Tarrin after he leveled part of Suld, she mentioned that she was stronger and they'd have to actually fight.  I know he wasn't a follower of her, but if Tarrin fought her, if Aiyse could, she'd probably kill him off the bat because that would be extremely upsetting to the balance to lose the power of fire.

[Shadowhawk]

I agree with the second and third parts, but on the part of number 1.  The reason that Aiyse couldn't destroy Val is because when he used the Firestaff, it changed him from a creation of Aiyse's to a creation of the Firestaff.

I don't know. When Tarrin was (for a short moment) a God, he was fully creation of the Firestaff. But after his "death", his body was regrown from the braid (hair) he left by Niame, thanks to his soul in his Soultrap. So, in a way his body is creation of Niame, besides being creation of Aiyse.

His sould is another matter. I don't know if he has pure God's soul, or mixture of his old human sould with some remains of his god's. And that it is a part which might be creation of the Firestaff.

[Lochar]

His soul is still a complete creation of the Firestaff I think.  If he dies, it's still gonna be destroyed, which means that it is.  If his soul was still part Aiyse's creation, Death would be able to take him once he dies.