Terry Goodkind book

[MommyDoom]

Hello everyone. Since we've been discussing books lately, I'd like to make an observation about the current book I'm reading, Wizard's First Rule, by Terriy Goodkind.

Now, I've read a LOT of fantasy books. LOTS. And in each book/series the author is required to create the "bad guy". Creation of this evil character is done through his/her

1. Thoughts
2. Deeds
3. Words
4. What other characters "say" about the character

But there are just some places that fantasy writers won't GO in order to create an evil character. It's one thing for another character to say, "well so-and-so does THIS and that's why he's evil." It's entirely another to describe it graphically and make your reader experience it. Well, Terry Goodkind WENT there last night. I am unsettled, disturbed, and feel a tiny bit "betrayed" by what he had me read last night. And I'm trying to decide whether that's the effect he was going for. I hope Fel is reading this. Fel, you have to decide just how far you are willing to go to make your point and how you are going to get that point across. Do you want to disturb your readers? Keep in mind that I'm sitting here today wondering just how dark Terry Goodkind's soul must be in order to come UP with this stuff.

Terry Goodkind has definitely crossed an imaginary line that I was very comfortable with and used to. I'm not entirely certain I'm going to read the rest of the books in this series now. I'm not sure I feel, "safe".

Has anyone else read this book and can give me some feedback?

MommyDoom


**modification**
On introspection, this is the first true reading I've done since having my son and it's quite possible that the atrocities described in order to vilify the evil character are only now truly disturbing as they strike, "closer to home." I'm dancing around this in order not to spoil the book for those who haven't read it.

[Spec8472]

....I'm sitting here today wondering just how dark Terry Goodkind's soul must be in order to come UP with this stuff.

Terry Goodkind has definitely crossed an imaginary line that I was very comfortable with and used to. I'm not entirely certain I'm going to read the rest of the books in this series now. I'm not sure I feel, "safe".

I've always tried to persist and keep reading, despite reading something that may be rather disturbing, annoying, or against my beliefs/ethics/etc.

For example, I started reading the Gap Series by Stephen Donaldson when I was younger (14). (Spoiler Warning, if you intend to read the series -- skip the next paragraph.)
In one of the first books in this series, there is several scenes in which a character is raped, and then attempts to commit suicide -- this was fairly shocking to me at the time, however I persisted, and whilst there were a lot of other fairly dark areas within the books, I did actually enjoy the series, when taken as a whole.

What I'm trying to say by this, is that sometimes you encounter something that doesn't fit your view of how the world should work, and sometimes you have to acknowledge that it happens, then move on. This isn't to say that you shouldn't do whatever you can to change the world for the better, simply that you should't let yourself be restricted in what you do, on the off chance you might encounter another 'bad thing'. If you don't feel safe, sure - be careful, but IMO you shouldn't let fear guide you.

However, at the same time I would agree that a Fantasy novel isn't the place you'd expect to find something shocking enough to make you feel unsettled/disturbed, not without some warnings before hand.

Ofcourse, this is all just my opinion, and I'm sure many people will disagree. But you're free to disagree

[Belgarath]

Yeah, I tried to read the Goodkind books.  I made it through the first one and part of the second before having to give it up as too disturbing for my tastes.

If you are looking for a good read, I highly recommed most anything by the Eddings(David & Leigh), but I guess my callsign does give that away.

[MommyDoom]

If you are looking for a good read, I highly recommed most anything by the Eddings(David & Leigh), but I guess my callsign does give that away.

LOVED those books. I have them all in my bookshelf at home.

I must say I'm glad to hear someone else found those books disturbing, but you've really sunk my hopes by saying that it continues in subsequent books.  I may just "suck it up" and forge on like Spec says (I just hate to leave a challenge) or I may not.  Kind of depends on how this one ends.

MD

[MISER]

Howdy All.

I must weigh in here.

I disagree with a statement or two here.

Take not the counsel of your fears was a great point of inspiration for commanders to troops in WWII. However when you are dealing with your personal morals and things of that nature it is different.

Let your fear guide you, it is a natural inherent trait designed to protect you. If it scares you it is very probably BAD! For You!

MD is pretty respectable around here. Just because a publisher has promoted and produced this work, and just because we enjoy as individuals and a group this genre, does NOT mean we should devour any thing that comes along.

I am going to respect that opinon and NOT read it. It's ok I do not have to. I am a mature person who can CHOOSE and live with my decisions.

Are you?

FEL   MD's challenge to you is fair. You have responsibility as an author whose works are availiable to literally anyone. And as a person to choose. I echo this challenge. You have not crossed my lines, please dont.  Just keep up the good work here.

No one is censoring you or threatening too. We all live in a world where freedoms differ. But in our nation Fel, I can write like this, and so can you. And sharing is a goodt hing. Weve all been told that, all of our lives.

Long live the board and the exchange of free ideas, in courtesy, respect, and our FELlowship!

John

[Lochar]

I agree with part of this.  Although I don't mind reading about the character being shown as evil this way, a good number don't.  I do believe that you Fel shouldn't do that, since it would change the flow of your books quite a bit.  Most books that introduce the bad guy is written from the good guy perspective of not wanting to hurt your readers.  It's a much darker type when you have described vividly what they did.  You've always kept a nice feel to your books, and I hope you continue to do so.

[MommyDoom]

FEL MD's challenge to you is fair. You have responsibility as an author whose works are availiable to literally anyone. And as a person to choose. I echo this challenge. You have not crossed my lines, please dont. Just keep up the good work here.

No one is censoring you or threatening too. We all live in a world where freedoms differ. But in our nation Fel, I can write like this, and so can you. And sharing is a goodt hing. Weve all been told that, all of our lives.

You know, I hadn't considered that what I wrote might be construed as a "threat" or a "censorship."  It was not intended as such.  It was, indeed, intended as a challenge and as a means to convey INTENT.  As in my post, I did not INTEND to threaten or censor, but I might have.  If Fel were to INTEND to disturb his readers then I'm sure he would have a very good reason for it, as does Terry Goodkind.  And, in that writing, authors must accept that they may lose their more sensitive readers.  Everyone has different levels of sensitivity and I'm sure there are people in this world who can't read about werecats rending and clawing their way through armies, but the rest of us find that kinda cool!  We all have our lines, that when crossed, offend our sensibilities.  My only challenge is that IF you cross someone's boundaries, accept that you will either change those boundaries or possibly lose a reader.  Do so with clear inent.

Having said that, I'm now going to be a hypocrite.  Fel dear, PUSH THE ENVELOPE.  For you personally and as an author.  Don't get in a rut.  Challenge yourself and your readers.  I mean, you're not making any money off this stuff so it's not feeding you or your family... why not write with abandon?

Boy, talk about preachy, eh?

MD

[MommyDoom]

Still thinking about all of this. Personal apology to Fel: it was presumptuous of me to even "challenge" you or to tell you how to write. You didn't ask for my opinion on your writing and I just came out and cautioned you and such and I shouldn't have. Please accept my humble apology. Carry on.  Going away now.  "So sorry to disturb".

See what happens during one of your dry spells?

MD

[Shadowhawk]

Do you mean that Terry Goodkind wrote a book which one can read? I have tried to read "Sword of Shannara"... and just could not. Maybe it was the worst translation of century, but it was so wooden! I have put him on the shelf "aothors I don't want to read". I couldn't fathom why his books are described in such superlatives in blurb (the note at the back side of the cover). Yes, I know it's writtent this way to make people buy and read this book...

You have read his book (so it could not be that bad), and you (at least some of you) like Eddings' books so you know some good books and have somethink to compare with, so maybe I reconsider reading some of other books by Terry Goodkind.

[MommyDoom]

Do you mean that Terry Goodkind wrote a book which one can read? I have tried to read "Sword of Shannara"... and just could not.

NONONONO.  You are confusing Terry Goodkind with Terry Brooks.  Terry Brooks wrote The Shannara books.  

MD

[Shadowhawk]

NONONONO.  You are confusing Terry Goodkind with Terry Brooks.  Terry Brooks wrote The Shannara books.

Oh. Thanks for straightening that up. :-*

[Greyfin]

Mommy Doom,

I was offended by your rather narrow minded remarks concerning Terry Goodkinds books.  I have read, and continue to read that series, and I find them to be very well written stories that do not deserve the criticism you heap upon them.  Yes, he does write in a bit "darker" style than some authors, but overall it just gives his stories more depth, that draws the reader into the plot.  If you would condem Goodkind for making some of his characters evil, then who will you will target next.  Robert Jordans WOT series contains some fairly disturbing scenes, so maybe you could turn your attention upon his works next to find items in his books that dont fit in with your personal views, and give you the excuse to bash his "soul" personally, like you did Goodkind.

The bottom line is, that if you want to only read "nice" stories, where nothing to disturb your sensibilities occurs, then stick with safe stories like Harry Potter and leave the "grownup" books for the people with the ability to appreciate them.

[Shadowhawk]

The bottom line is, that if you want to only read "nice" stories, where nothing to disturb your sensibilities occurs, then stick with safe stories like Harry Potter and leave the "grownup" books for the people with the ability to appreciate them.

On the other hand, do you think that only "dark" books are "grownup" books? I don't think so. I have read a lot of books where main characters are good (or ate least try to be good) but not wooden; rather the opposite, they show a real, true character. They made mistakes, they for example get angry. Does one need the "bad stuff" (e.g. violence) written explicitely to make plot interesting and not boring?

Take for example the "Wizard of Earthsea" by Ursula K. Le Guin. Do you think (if you have read it) that the character of the main character is unrealistic? Is this story a "nice" story?

On the other hand, do you think that e.g. "The Little Prince" by  Antoine de Saint-Exupery is for children only? That "an adult" could not learn anything from it?

Ehh... enough of it. I meant no offence. Some people like it dark, some like it nice. It can be quite nice (i.e. not dark) and grownup.

P.S. If you like dark stories and the opposite of happy endings, try Feliks W. Kres... when his books gets translated (from Polish), that is  :P

[MommyDoom]

I was offended by your rather narrow minded remarks concerning Terry Goodkinds books.

I'm sorry I offended you.  I can see where you might construe literature with tougher, darker content as more "grown up" and maybe that's what I'm having a hard time with.  More introspection is needed.  Thank you for your honest (if a tad abusive) response to my post.

MD

[Greymist]

I have to agree with Greyfin here though I don't mean to make it an insult MD, I've read the whole Sword of Truth series and when you first mentioned the darker side I of the books it took me awhile to remember back to what you ment because the darker side didn't strike me 'dark enough' to warrent remembering specifically it was just a part of the story development.

Perhaps it says something about my personality though, my humor is rather dark and morbid at times still I don't see myself reading American Physco anytime soon (ever?) I've been pasted excerpt's.  :o