Tribulation(spoilers ) chap 2

[SYED]

the faey will be better balanced by alien contact the karinne introduce, a greater integration. Also while the near by races get the tech, the distant ones would be easy to conquer.

[dellstart]

the faey will be better balanced by alien contact the karinne introduce, a greater integration. Also while the near by races get the tech, the distant ones would be easy to conquer.

MMM I am not sure it will quite pan out that way.........

[Belgarion213]

I'm fairly sure it won't. As mentioned a lot of races apart from finding the Faey creepy with their entire population being telepathic also still dislike the Faey for killing the precursor to Jaon's house. The fact that they are back still doesn't change the matter that they were gone for a thousand years and technology hasn't been advancing anywhere near as fast since then.

Even sharing this technology and fighting side by side with other races I think the Faey tenancies are still going to bother some of the other races (who admittedly have their own problem) and the fact they were forced to fight with these other outsiders against a threat that is powerful enough to threaten the destruction of the Imperium and its surrounding neighbors is not going to be a psychological happy place to be. While in the short term they might be buddy buddy with them long term is going to be 'interesting' at best the cultural backlash. Unless there is a Harri Seldon around (which could actually be an interesting plot twist and with the advanced abilities of the house reasonably likely.... to a degree) I doubt everything is going to be sunshine and roses.

[SYED]

They still face additional consortium forces, this time they may send a larger or better fleet, that has been warned of our tricks. The feay would also finally deal with the skaa and alliance forces that remain. More the alliance then skaa. They have ill intent to the confeds. The skaa and alliance will have been weakened or conquered, so with gates, indictors and fleet simple to aquire.

While new tech make planets defended, indictors and gates, means the faey can give threats of seiges to entire systems, so join or be traped on you planet.

The faey could attack the skaa and alliance now if they wish, just not with ships. Send out satan marbles to all space inferstructure, and place saurons rings near many conduits, get the kimdore and trefani to plant mines to target sticks, then unleash it at the same time, you could cripple their inferstructure. If the alliance was weakened enough the skaa would be sure to attack.

The feay has the easiest and safest way to expand indictors and gates, these mean only a smaller fleet is required minimally for the military. WIth faey numbers, totally secure. Alot of worlds would join for safty, the ability to see people coming into your space, no invasions or pirates. With the goodwill collected after driving out the consortium, it could invite these little worlds to join, afering them their own rule if they joined like earth, lots of world would join. The war will also damage a lot of worlds, so they could easily be scooped up and fixed and brought in. Imperium means advanced tech base and inproved inferstructure. The faey will be creating a network all over the galaxcy, so trade of unrivalled numbers goes through its shipping. the karinnes could build a fleet of tugs to jump ships in and out, with their systems shut down.

How many groups got the new tech, only jason was abvle to adapt it so quick, was it every race that attended the academy or thors that had a few world behind them, the green people, the yeti, the colonials, moridin, and the big empires. if the faey managed to aquire these world or got the the world like moridin to become locked neutrals like the wolverine people, then the tech is kept under control.

Due to ship numbers and tech, a lot will be lost, who want to bet that the less loyal houses will be used first, houses in general will take the losses while the imperial fleet does the damage to the enemy. Trillane will be stomped by the urumni as soon as possible, making them a lower house if it survives. wanna bet jason might get a piece of them.

[expedient]

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with Fel on the whole "can't jump the nebula because..." A interdictor will work to prevent ships jumping into a system because it is designed to reach into hyperspace aka a completely different dimension and block a ship's transit. However, gravity of one dimension (the nebula) does not have the same ability as the interdictor to cause the Karns a problem. The only reason the interdictor can reach into hyperspace is because of the special material used in the antenna's, and that material only exists naturally in hyperspace. Where as a nebula does does not have this material and two gravity does not jump dimensions. Hyperspace being a completely different dimension, not even comprehendable by the senses where time and spacial relation do not hold the same as our own dimension, is immune from any gravity source in our own dimension, the exception being possibily a black hole.

Now as to hyperspace being a different dimension and being one of the 11, 13 or 14 possible dimensions (depending upon which school of thought you believe) or not and how this should cause one to interpret the many worlds theory... well I'm a bit fuzzy on that point.

Not trying to be a ass here Fel - just say'n...

As an alternative view:

The presence of materials that straddle both normal space-time and hyperspace would suggest that the dimensions of hyperspace are not an alternative world being traveled through. Gravity wells also affecting transition into and out of hyperspace (and possibly through also) further supports that there is no "many worlds" or alternative linked space involved.

My take is that traveling in hyperspace involves either making a high energy field or limited artificial space-time bubble and pushing that into a super space framework that supports the normal four (more in the case of the Faey with their psionic abilities) dimensions that we can perceive. The negation of the normal effects of space-time leaves the mind struggling to cope with the nature of those dimensions. Either the energies in this dimensions affect the mind in some way or the removal of of the influence of space-time confuses the traveller.

I would also posit that psionic powers use a different set of energies and dimensions since the use of those powers seem to have different range issues and yet do not appear to be affected by time lag as communications in space-time and hyperspace have been shown to. Neither can the use of psionic abilities currently be intercepted or directly detected (except by other telepaths and the Karinne artificially grown biogenic circuits).


The limited ability of the Faey to travel through hyperspace for extended periods is a weakness I'd be looking to exploit from the perspective of the Consortium. It would allow the Consortium to utilise the advantage of their greater numbers by assigning ships to follow and make opportunist attacks on any ships travelling outside the interdicted zones. The Consortium would need to improve upon their relatively weak sensors first, perhaps by using Alliance technology. So Jason's plan of forcing as much of the Consortium fleet as possible to be tasked in defensive duties is vital to allow an effective campaign to be waged against those assets else those Legion 3D plans could be turned against them.

[Fel]

My take is that traveling in hyperspace involves either making a high energy field or limited artificial space-time bubble and pushing that into a super space framework that supports the normal four (more in the case of the Faey with their psionic abilities) dimensions that we can perceive. The negation of the normal effects of space-time leaves the mind struggling to cope with the nature of those dimensions. Either the energies in this dimensions affect the mind in some way or the removal of of the influence of space-time confuses the traveller.

This is essentially correct. Jumping hyperspace involves generating what you might call a "hyperspace energy field" around a ship, which then causes it to jump into hyperspace as soon as it moves in real space. Simply put, the larger a ship is, the more energy it takes. Also, the SLOWER it moves within the frame of hyperspace, the more energy it takes to keep it there. Not faster, slower. However, to CHANGE speed in hyperspace takes EXTREME amounts of power, which is why a ship is almost always locked into the velocity it inherits when it initially enters hyperspace. A ship will drop out of hyperspace the instant this field is removed, which is how ships drop out. Computers calculate how long to keep the engines going, then they shut them down, which causes them to drop out.

And this the REAL reason behind how interdictors attack ships. They induce a CHANGE in hyperspace velocity to any ship using hyperspace engines, the "disruption to hyperspace that knocks the ships out", and the ships' engines cannot meet that power demand to maintain hyperspace integrity. It disrupts their "hyperspace field," and they drop into real space. It's also how Karinne ships "ride the wave." They're not actually riding an energy trough, they're actually matching the velocity of the waveform itself, which causes no induced change of velocity. And so, they can jump right through it in the same direction the field radiates from its origin point.

And as soon as Myleena figures this out, she'll be able to redesign Karinne engines to counter the interdiction effect...because yes, the Karinnes and the Kimdori have engines and power generation systems powerful enough to counter the effect, with the Karinnes capable after just a few tweaks to their engines to upgrade them to modern technology (they're still using the original Karinne designs, where the Kimdori are using much more modern engines). The Consortium, however, do NOT. Their engines are based on the original Karinne design and therefore would be capable of it after a few modifications, but the Consortium's power generation technologies cannot stand up to the power demands required. In this respect, they are quite a bit behind the Karinnes, beacuse they focused more on interphasal systems to power their broadcast power systems and less and meta- and quantum- systems which hyperspace engines use. The Consortium would have to upgrade to a more powerful energy system in their ships to breach the interdiction field.

This "entry velocity" curve isn't linear, it's logarithmic, and like an interdiction buildup curve, it has a "slow/fast/slow" bell curve. This translates into a similar bell curve when it comes to the technology that allows a ship to get into hyperspace in the first place. Civilizations just learning about hyperspace start at the bottom, have to do a LOT of research and advancement to get to the start of the bell, and then, once they're highly advanced, no amount of research is going to make things much better.

If you're curious, the big three (Consortium, Kimdori, Karinne) are just starting to enter the bottom of the bell curve. There's still soooo much they need to learn before they start to max it out. And of the three, the Kimdori are the most advanced. They can do things in and with hyperspace the others have yet to match.

This is the reason why civilizations with highly advanced hyperspace technologies (the big three) can both move through hyperspace in real time, and also move a little faster in hyperspace than most others (this difference is measureable, but it doesn't have much impact in the scheme of things). Their ships have highly advanced systems that can more efficiently create the "breach" of initial hyperspace entry, so they enter with more velocity, and that efficiency translates to them being able to enter and move in hyperspace in real time. That's how they avoid the relativity delay. It's not about moving, it's about how they get in there.

This is also why most other civilizations are so far behind the big three when it comes to hyperspace technology. It takes some extremely advanced technology to make engines efficient enough to move ships through hyperspace in real time.

Your reasoning about how three dimensional beings perceive hyperspace is more or less also correct. It's a matter of sensory overload of both what you can understand and what you can't, the mind trying to perceive things far beyond its comprehension. Think of it as a temporary case of "being John Malkovich," with you looking instead through the senses of God. You have his ability to perceive what you usually cannot, but not his ability to UNDERSTAND what you're perceiving. What you see and hear and feel and smell make no sense to you, so your brain wildly misinterprets the sensory chaos in ways it can intepret...and this produces hallucinations and other phenomena associated with hyperspace exposure.