Sennadar Forums

Fel wrote:Hyperspace 101 is in session.

Okay Professor Fel -- now for Stargates.

I can't see how your left leg could continue to work if it's coming out of a stargate on one side of the galaxy if the brain controlling it is still on the other side of the galaxy. Same goes for space ships - if half your reactor system is on the other side of an event horizon, surely Bad Things will happen Very Suddenly.

So, Fel, how do your gates work?

The only way I can concieve of stargates working is if they're wrapping up discrete packets of normal space and shunting them to the other side in one 'transaction'. This meaning that the gate would have some upper limit on how big something can be.

Spec8472 wrote:

Fel wrote:Hyperspace 101 is in session.

Okay Professor Fel -- now for Stargates.

I can't see how your left leg could continue to work if it's coming out of a stargate on one side of the galaxy if the brain controlling it is still on the other side of the galaxy. Same goes for space ships - if half your reactor system is on the other side of an event horizon, surely Bad Things will happen Very Suddenly.

So, Fel, how do your gates work?

The only way I can conceive of stargates working is if they're wrapping up discrete packets of normal space and shunting them to the other side in one 'transaction'. This meaning that the gate would have some upper limit on how big something can be.

In the Stargate (SG-1 and Atlantis) world, the gates would absorb matter into a buffer of astronomical proportions and then transmit the matter in units as each total enitity/item passed the event horizon. That's y people seem to pop out of the gate as they exit, rather than waltzing as they traditionally enter the gate. The buffer was made to handle enormous amounts of data so that it's limit would be near impossible to reach, but those gates were limited to about 20 feet across. For enormous loads, like space cruisers, supergates were necessary, which made the traditional gates look like needles in a haystack. Those gates had buffers proportional to their size, ie: near incomprehensible.

Obviously Fel has author's prerogative, but that is the traditional method.

-DigitalMaestro

Spec8472 wrote:

Fel wrote:Hyperspace 101 is in session.

Okay Professor Fel -- now for Stargates.

I can't see how your left leg could continue to work if it's coming out of a stargate on one side of the galaxy if the brain controlling it is still on the other side of the galaxy. Same goes for space ships - if half your reactor system is on the other side of an event horizon, surely Bad Things will happen Very Suddenly.

So, Fel, how do your gates work?

The only way I can concieve of stargates working is if they're wrapping up discrete packets of normal space and shunting them to the other side in one 'transaction'. This meaning that the gate would have some upper limit on how big something can be.

Stargates aren't two-dimensional. When you enter one, you actually travel from one point to another though a stable wormhole. They're very short, but they have definite length.

Stargates have definite borders, and your points are also points that are valid for stargate operation. First, a ship has to be moving when it goes through one, coasting on its own momentum. That prevents people from getting killed from getting "stuck" in the border and split apart. The ship too has to take precautions in order to use a stargate. I know it's been a long time since I described using one, but ships cannot have their systems on when using a stargate, or the spatial warping of the gate destroys them. Plasma has to be shut off and PPGs and other items that utilized stretched/warped space placed in a protected mode that prevents the gate from damaging them, and gravometric engines must be offline. A gravometric engine turned on in a stargate can have disastrous results, because the engines can't warp space inside an area of highly warped space. The two forces disrupt each other, and it can destroy the ship, throw it to some random corner of the universe, or even rip through the dimensional fabric and catapult the ship into another universe.

All three of these events have happened in the past, though the Faey only have evidence of the first two.

The reason why it takes two gates to form a bridge is because something on both sides of the juncture has to work to keep the wormhole open and stable. And a stargate cannot be linked to more than one gate at a time, because it has to actively "hold the door open" between the gates.

Draconis is the hub of the Imperium for this reason. There are gates in a ring all around the planet, just outside the gravity well to prevent planetary gravity from disrupting the gate, and each gate is linked to a different gate out in the Imperium. In an emergency, though, two gates in the Imperium can break their links with Draconis and link to each other. Merrane doesn't allow this as a matter of course, since Merrane controls the revenue from gate usage at Draconis. They make everyone go through Draconis so the house gets money out of it.

On Faster Then Light Travel.
I believe that during the attack on Karis by the Urumi, The Aegis made a very short jump to a location behind the Urumi fleet unloaded a crap load on missles and then jumped back to its previous position. I have a slight issue with this in regards to relitivity and Faster Then Light Travel.
Those of you familiar with Star Trek may know of "The Picard Manuver". During a battle with some Ferengi A young lt comander Picard is forced to take command of the Star Gazer due to the death of most of the other bridge officers. Picard takes the Star Gazer to Warp for milliseconds and appears right next to the Ferengi Vessel. Now since the light of the Star Gazer going to Warp took more then a few milliseconds to reach the Ferengi it appears to the Ferengi that there are 2 Star Gazers confusing the Ferengi and allowing Picard to distroy the Ferengi vessel.
This should happen in Fel's universe. Perticularlly in regards to the above mentioned trick by The Aegis. From a certian relitivistic point of view 2 Aegisis should have been visable.

DigitalMaestro wrote:In the Stargate (SG-1 and Atlantis) world, the gates would absorb matter into a buffer of astronomical proportions and then transmit the matter in units as each total enitity/item passed the event horizon.

Yeah, normally - but there were so many times when things were passing from one side to another in a constant stream (eg in that prison planet episode somehow they're pouring food through the gate.)

In Stargate they step into, and out of the gate, implying there's some sort of internal platform they're standing on when they walk in --- 'course this is nitpicking the whole thing, but, eh.

Spec8472 wrote:

DigitalMaestro wrote:In the Stargate (SG-1 and Atlantis) world, the gates would absorb matter into a buffer of astronomical proportions and then transmit the matter in units as each total enitity/item passed the event horizon.

Yeah, normally - but there were so many times when things were passing from one side to another in a constant stream (eg in that prison planet episode somehow they're pouring food through the gate.)

In Stargate they step into, and out of the gate, implying there's some sort of internal platform they're standing on when they walk in --- 'course this is nitpicking the whole thing, but, eh.

One of my personal theories, having watched Col Carter talk about gate mechanics for some time, is that the stream of food would have been completely absorbed by one gate before the other gate began distribution. Of course this cannot be proven without a clear view of both event horizons, but it seems to me to be the most rational explanation. As to the walking out of the gate, that is mainly a flaw of movie making: they were walking of a platform behind the event horizon. In most cases, the team would "hop/fall" out of the gate on exit. only beings meant to appear to be of great power or experience ie: the asgard walked out of the gate normally. Eventually, the actors/makers got lazy and started walking out more and more, but I think this is a flaw of acting, not of the gate theory.

It's all just personal theory, but I've been a fan for a long time and it makes sense to me.

-DigitalMaestro

DigitalMaestro wrote:is that the stream of food would have been completely absorbed by one gate before the other gate began distribution.

Okay, so what about radio waves then... I mean, how is that supposed to work -- the higher parts of the EM spectrum seem to get special treatment from the gates. After all, you can't see through it, but you can point a partical accellerator and/or antenna a one and it's apparently not opaque to those.

Maybe I expect a bit too much sci from my scifi

Spec8472 wrote:

DigitalMaestro wrote:is that the stream of food would have been completely absorbed by one gate before the other gate began distribution.

Okay, so what about radio waves then... I mean, how is that supposed to work -- the higher parts of the EM spectrum seem to get special treatment from the gates. After all, you can't see through it, but you can point a partical accellerator and/or antenna a one and it's apparently not opaque to those.

Maybe I expect a bit too much sci from my scifi

the particle theory of energy states that EM waves are also discreet packets, like light is made of photons.The gate could transmit those particles rather than a continuous wave. Not to mention we really don't understand quanta yet anyway.

-DigitalMaestro

Fel wrote:
All three of these events have happened in the past, though the Faey only have evidence of the first two.

Hope people didn't miss this. This is an example of Fel giving us a clue. My money is on it being how the consortium found out about the Karinnes and karis. The consortium isn't just from another galexy, they are from another universe. It's possible that they have learned to harness or control the ability to fling their ship's into another universe or galexy. Jason is going to have to learn this skill in order to counter the consortium. Perhaps its like in the books the "rift wars" where there is a stable rift that needs to be collapsed?

Things to think about.

~MIchael

Ledsmith wrote:On Faster Then Light Travel.
I believe that during the attack on Karis by the Urumi, The Aegis made a very short jump to a location behind the Urumi fleet unloaded a crap load on missles and then jumped back to its previous position. I have a slight issue with this in regards to relitivity and Faster Then Light Travel.
Those of you familiar with Star Trek may know of "The Picard Manuver". During a battle with some Ferengi A young lt comander Picard is forced to take command of the Star Gazer due to the death of most of the other bridge officers. Picard takes the Star Gazer to Warp for milliseconds and appears right next to the Ferengi Vessel. Now since the light of the Star Gazer going to Warp took more then a few milliseconds to reach the Ferengi it appears to the Ferengi that there are 2 Star Gazers confusing the Ferengi and allowing Picard to distroy the Ferengi vessel.
This should happen in Fel's universe. Perticularlly in regards to the above mentioned trick by The Aegis. From a certian relitivistic point of view 2 Aegisis should have been visable.

I'm not too familiar with the Star Trek universe, but I believe that while it is possible in the ST universe to see the same ship in two places (in fact, I recall reading somewhere that the Enterprise D or E had and emergency top speed of warp 11 or so the equivalent of being in two different places at the same time —their math, not mine), the same isn't true for hyperspace-based FTL universes such as Subjugation or Stargate. The Star Trek FTL warps our own space to allow FTL travel, while Stargate and Subjugation require breaching into hyperspace to do the same, they can't do it with the normal dimension of space. You may see both the opening and the closing of the hyperspace window simultaneously, and you may see for an instant one part of the ship in one end of the window, and the rest of the ship on the other end, but not the whole ship in two positions.

TLGG wrote:The Star Trek FTL warps our own space to allow FTL travel, while Stargate and Subjugation require breaching into hyperspace to do the same, they can't do it with the normal dimension of space. You may see both the opening and the closing of the hyperspace window simultaneously, and you may see for an instant one part of the ship in one end of the window, and the rest of the ship on the other end, but not the whole ship in two positions.

It's to do with distance -- if I'm 10 light minutes away from you and you're watching me, then I jump and am right next to you - you'll continue to see the 10 minute old light and other EM radiation from where I was. So, it appears as though there's two ships.

TLGG wrote: , while Stargate and Subjugation require breaching into hyperspace to do the same, they can't do it with the normal dimension of space. You may see both the opening and the closing of the hyperspace window simultaneously, and you may see for an instant one part of the ship in one end of the window, and the rest of the ship on the other end, but not the whole ship in two positions.

Come to think of it Stargate: Atlantis did an episode where the energy from an erupting volcano was used to push a ship into hyperspace directly towards the Apollo (i think) instead of the shipping appear in two places at once it dropped off on sensors for a few seconds. Not very scientifically correct but if makes for better drama. If is science fiction after all.

Spec8472 wrote:

TLGG wrote:The Star Trek FTL warps our own space to allow FTL travel, while Stargate and Subjugation require breaching into hyperspace to do the same, they can't do it with the normal dimension of space. You may see both the opening and the closing of the hyperspace window simultaneously, and you may see for an instant one part of the ship in one end of the window, and the rest of the ship on the other end, but not the whole ship in two positions.

It's to do with distance -- if I'm 10 light minutes away from you and you're watching me, then I jump and am right next to you - you'll continue to see the 10 minute old light and other EM radiation from where I was. So, it appears as though there's two ships.

Even though some may visually see 2 ships .... I believe the Karinne scanners work on the Teryon platform which would almost show no time lag in their scans. In Unification, the Karinnes were able to note the arrival of the Consortium without even visually seeing them with the hyperspace probes placed within the system. I am sure whether the optical scanners would be able show the presence of ships in real time. Teryon is FTL. The only thing that has not popped up is teleportation technology. I thought it was already been discovered by the Karrines only it has not been surprised by Fel as one of his secret arsenal of surprises. It was in the first book when the Jason and Jeslyn disappear from Earth, the palace even thought they were closely watched.... it can only be teleportation, i thought an application similar to replicator technology... since the Karinne can replicated food.. an organic substance.. which means that they are able to do teleportation. If you cannot replicate organic substance, you cannot do teleportation... they follow the same principles.

Mizriath wrote:It was in the first book when the Jason and Jeslyn disappear from Earth, the palace even thought they were closely watched.... it can only be teleportation, i thought an application similar to replicator technology... since the Karinne can replicated food.. an organic substance.. which means that they are able to do teleportation. If you cannot replicate organic substance, you cannot do teleportation... they follow the same principles.

Except that you would need to transport something while it's still alive... I imagine that that would be quite a bit more challenging than just transporting atoms in the right order.

Fel said that Chapter 2 is 99.2% complete.!!!!!! It is not complete yet complete... Just missing the dots and the full stops. Actually I don't mind reading it at 99%, skip the 0.2% when it comes to reading.

Only the Faey cares about the 0.2% when ot comes to royalties. :