Fun With Faey tech

[Shadowhawk]

Subjugation and the rest of the world:

The Faey are traped in a kind of a Rut because they have been taught their tech one way.... they have been told your can do this but can't do this.  Someone decided that something couldn't be done and thats the way they have been taught.

Jason hasn't learned all of the teaching yet so he has no idea if something can or can't be done yet  :)

[censored]. I'm sick of this [censored] stupid preconception that somehow knowledge gets in the way of new ideas (and inventions). First, knowing what is sure no-go prevents wasting time on things like perpetuum mobile. Second, so called common sense (as it is based on what we perceive with our own eyes) is usually more an obstacle (see: quantum mechanics, general and special relativity). Third in sciences (at least on Earth) contesting assumptions (knowing of course that they are assumptions) is "built-in" in teaching science; and telling all the factors against some idea, model or explanation is what distinguish pseudo-science (cult cargo science) from true science.

Rant, rant, rant.

[Phantom]

Subjugation and the rest of the world:
[censored]. I'm sick of this [censored] stupid preconception that somehow knowledge gets in the way of new ideas (and inventions). First, knowing what is sure no-go prevents wasting time on things like perpetuum mobile. Second, so called common sense (as it is based on what we perceive with our own eyes) is usually more an obstacle (see: quantum mechanics, general and special relativity). Third in sciences (at least on Earth) contesting assumptions (knowing of course that they are assumptions) is "built-in" in teaching science; and telling all the factors against some idea, model or explanation is what distinguish pseudo-science (cult cargo science) from true science.

Rant, rant, rant.

Sorry just going off of the Story on this

I posted this on the other thread in general but here it is again (See Below) with a little more added......Fels words but I think they hit the heart of your problem ... pre-conceived notions.
Most teachers have their own views on how something is (Notice I said Most not all) and it leaks in to their teaching on a subject.
Causing pre-conceived notions to be formed by the student.
( Now not all will fall prey to this but a lot will )

Remember Most students about 90% +- some
will end up taking this teaching as Gospel and never think out side the box.

I know this thought may Cause you to not like it. but it's real world...
Why do you think cults attract some many willing followers so easily?

Think of it this way This thread has had 275 Views at this time the other thread in general has had 721 Views so far. there are 311 registered users on this forum and who knows how many not registered viewers

And there are like what 5 or 6 of us Discussing this right now
That factors out to 1.9% of the registered users here maybe Thinking out side the Box.
Not all people are thinkers a lot are followers but I'll bet of the 311 registered users here a lot more are in the first category then in the second

So what can that tell us about this Discussion?
ponder that thought for a while and see what you come up with.

======================================
You know, I think Ive figured out how you think this stuff up, Ailan had confided last week, as they went over his project after Jason brought it in to show him, his one and only chance to have the instructor check his project.

You come into this with absolutely no pre-conceived notions. You have a fresh
outlook on things, you know? I almost envy you for that, you know.

All you have to do is open your eyes and look at things, Ailan, Jason chuckled.

Yes, but you see, I have years of training jading my point of view, he answered. You dont. You look at something and see something I never considered, because your lack of training lets you approach it from an angle I wouldnt consider.

You might be right, Jason had acceded."


Phantom

[thisandthat]

Or pull a few tricks to make life miserable for the Faey.

How about seeding the reservation with Faey detectors. As the Faey walk by they get hit with some armor melting gas   and while you are at it go ahead and denude them of hair.

Use the same type of detectors in town but this time the Faey get tagged with the sonic transducers. Randomly make different sections of town off limit to the Faey by turning on the itching transmitters,

Slip something in to earth food production so that the Faey everywhere sport the chrome dome look.

[Shadowhawk]

I wonder if there is possible to make some kind of telepathic or subliminal message generator, telling Faey which happen to come close to the Jason's commune "Nothing interesting here, go along". Of course one has to be careful to not attract attention.

See also: "A Gift From Earth" by Larry Niven

[Phantom]

Humm so much to work with

What about taking the Machine Telephany interface idea a little further

Build an interface that allows a Normal humans thoughts to be accessed via pads or sensors built into a helmet and then rebroadcast using telepathic wavelengths or such.   Giving normal humans a Telepathic edge of sorts

or Build the helmets to Negate telepathic attacks allowing normal humans to gain back a little measure of the Faey disadvantage.

I know the Faey being Heavy gravity worlders still have some strength advantage but I don't think it would extend to Faey born and raised off world. unless the world or moon, ship or other had a higher then earth normal gravity.  


OR Jason could build a interface similar to what the Kimdori do.     Could be just awesome allowing Humans to interface directly to Lets say Battle control computers in Fighter craft or exomech and share with it.  

Also by doing so with a large enough and fast enough computer it could be possible to interface via signals radio,telepathic or other and control computers in several remote piloted exomech's or fighters in a battle

These same units ( Exomech or Fighter ) could be rebuilt to take advantage of their nonpilot status to add extra weapontry or sheilds  or they could  be made much smaller then a normal unit allowing for a better target size and weight ratio.  

Just removing the drain on unit systems by the life-support systems alone would boost the units powerlevels.  Unit's no longer having to have extra high drain systems to support a pilot would most likely reduce normal combat powerdrain by 50% or more

These modified units could devastate other normal Piloted units simply because they could outlast other combatants
I can see them Having stronger and longer lasting shields, weapons and sheer speed.
The sheer speed owing to the fact that there is more power available in the first place  but also there is no need to limit it's systems to protect a Biological lifeform controlling it



Also Jason hasn't explored the fact that the Faey Use other dimensions a lot yet if certain items could be phase shifted just a bit but still remain usable in this dimension then detecting them becomes harder.

Also using inter-dimensional shifts one could use it for sending messages or even moving equipment, supplies or maybe persons from one place to another quickly... Kind a like the Gates in space.
But on a much smaller scale.. maybe it would be possible to also build small personal units that allow people to escape to somewhere else if needed....

Maybe like a one shot escape system or such transporting a person miles away or to one of several preprogrammed sites instantly

It could also be a way to setup some sort of inter-dimensional Supply caches that are hidden untill someone needs them and recalls them from the other dimension. There by keeping them from being detected by normal means or sensors.


Another thought just struck me as well Jason could possibly add inter-dimensional generators ( Like the PPG core ejectors ) to his rail-guns maybe add some sort  of Personal Keying to the weapon that will only allow the weapons keyed owner to fire it.
if someone else try's to activate, fire or dissemble it  that triggers a failsafe that Transports the weapon into a alternate dimension automatically  there by keeping it out of non-friendly hands.
These would of course have their own small backup power supply just in case.  



Phantom

[Shadowhawk]

Well, it is not exactly about "Fun with Faey tech", but I wonder if telepathy gives faey edge in sciences: to be more exact in learning and transferring ideas. Still writing down results has its own merits.

[Shadowhawk]

• Personal Teleporter (Recall). By tweaking the ideas behind safety ejector module for PPG, and the physics behind portals/wormholes, I think one can make some kind of Personal Teleporter. It would probably have many constraints. Most probable is that to transfer the mass of human (in armor) unharmed the energy would be too much for small, portable PPG generator. I think about having some part of it ("locator") buit in armor, and the main part powered by city-scale PPG with the bank of "energy capacitors" as the second part. It would probably use too much energy to have reload time sufficiently short. Maybe the aror part would be one-shot only. And probably teleport would be to only one, pre-selected location - so pay attention and make return point unocuppied.
• Mental Shield. Combine some kind of material which supresses telepathy, maybe some kind of "reversing field" technology as used in cone of silence and advanced silencing headphones. Or maybe some kind of jamming, i.e. generating field. Maybe making human stray thought make like animal ones. But it would be prudent to make some kind of machinery which makes stray Faey not recognize Jason's commune via human thoughts. Human thought without accompanying visual. Yes, I know that Faey should be close and concentrating on detecting humans, but still...
  
  Be it helmet like contraption, or per city large machinery...

[J-Man5]

It seems that Faey are attracted to humans.  Could Jason examine the Pheremonal component that is causing this to up the pheremone count on normal humans and give them control over Faey.  Kinda like drugging the Faey through their sex drive.  OK Yes honey!  I get off the computer.  What ever you want.  

Later.   Pheremones are getting me!!!!

J-Man5

[ANTIcarrot]

[censored]. I'm sick of this [censored] stupid preconception that somehow knowledge gets in the way of new ideas (and inventions).

True, but sometimes the culture that surrounds knowledge, and science, and engineering *can* get in the way of new ideas. Pattent laws and intelectual property rights are both needed for new technoogy to turn a profit (and hence spurn more R&D) but they do so by preventing certian people from using the information for their own ends.

Consider Microsoft as well. How many new ideas and novel approaches have been squashed or hindered because of the One Standard Way Of Doing Things that was backed by the ultra rich?

It is possible both effects are present in Faey society. Or they might not be. We really haven't seen enough of it to know one way or the other.

ANTIcarrot.

[Shadowhawk]

Another question not quite in the par of subject title: why Faey Empire has U.S. patent laws? ;D

[J-Man5]

Who says they are U.S. patent laws.  

But any large empire usually has some sort of "idea" registration system.  IIRC the chinese had something of the sort for thousands of years.  If you come up with an idea you have two means of making money.  One you create a process that NO ONE else can duplicate or you come up with an idea and then license it to others.

J-Man5

[Shadowhawk]

• Armor Hijacking. The possibility of this invention depends on how Faey armor is constructed, namely if sensory input for the wearer is provided via cameras and microphones, or are they normal outside world input, only perhaps enhanced (e.g. via some kind of HUD) or supressed (e.g. active "reverse phase" sound supressor). If the former is the case, and there is some kind of central processing unit, then it might be possible to create device which attaches itself to Faey armor and hijack/hack its computer (maybe disquising hacking in as upgrade or firmware upload). The possibilities of what it can do are many: hiding humans marked with some kind of identifier (e.g. low energy radio IFF, or some kind of symbol sewn ito wardrobe) from noticing, removing/hiding them from visual and aural input; painting fellow Faey soldiers as humans/enemies...
• Passive Radar, which takes advantage of the fact that even stealth plane has many elmag sources: radiolocator, IFF (Identifier Friend-Foe) transponder, radionavigation, radioaltometers and plane-to-plane radio; and of course plane radar itself. It can be either based on directional fast-scanning aerial (needs at least two stations to detect position), or TDOA - Time Difference Of Arrival (needs at least three stations to detect position). It is possible that such system (Czech system "Tamara") was used to detect stealth fighter-bomber F-117A, pass the info to IR-tracking anti-aircraft missile system, and shot it down over Yugoslavia. This kind of surveillance cannot ve detected!
• Microdot Surveillance. Spread around new city the net of microdots, simple devices consisting of simple CPU, some detectors, and some way of communication (via ad-hoc network) betwen themselves. The communication can be made low power, and in bursts (to conserve energu), thus very low probability of noticing. It can additionally use behavior of animals as additional detectors
• "Secondary Information" Espionage. The details depends on if the military net is physically separated from publically accesible network (Civnet and co.), or is separated (Milnet-like). Even if the traffic uses too god a cipher to break encryption, one can detect information movement, information activity (e.g. routers load, or network bandwidth used), mails to friends and public acessible information (papers, BBS, fora and such). If Milnet is physically separated and does not intersect with Civnet, one has only to hack into it, and leave some kind of electronical bug/spy reporting the traffic. One would need some kind of good filters ("smart frames") for that...

[Phantom]

True, but sometimes the culture that surrounds knowledge, and science, and engineering *can* get in the way of new ideas. Pattent laws and intelectual property rights are both needed for new technoogy to turn a profit (and hence spurn more R&D) but they do so by preventing certian people from using the information for their own ends.

Consider Microsoft as well. How many new ideas and novel approaches have been squashed or hindered because of the One Standard Way Of Doing Things that was backed by the ultra rich?

It is possible both effects are present in Faey society. Or they might not be. We really haven't seen enough of it to know one way or the other.

ANTIcarrot.

One thing is for sure the Faey government Sure grabbed Jason's Patent and ran with it.   sure they paid him the normal government patent fee's  but he had no say what so ever with what they did with it or even if they could.

""Typical""

• [1]Armor Hijacking
  
  [2]Passive Radar,
  
  [3]Microdot Surveillance.
  
  [4]"Secondary Information" Espionage.

• [1] I had a Idea about something like this as an off shoot from the idea of Telepathic machine interface control
  
  [2] the Faey already have and use Passive Scanning
  that's why Jason had to shut down the Air skimmer and use shielding around his PPG's
  
  [3] Humm maybe this could be something like Jason's Subsonic Patent small little round patches hidden on Faey Armor Kind of like Limpet Mines maybe they could be duel purpose tracking/surveillance and anti personnel ?
  
  [4]I think this is what Kiaari is going to do for jason all ready

Phantom

[Shadowhawk]

• [2](Passive Radar) the Faey already have and use Passive Scanning
  that's why Jason had to shut down the Air skimmer and use shielding around his PPG's
  
  [3](Microdots) Humm maybe this could be something like Jason's Subsonic Patent  small little round patches hidden on Faey Armor  Kind of like Limpet Mines  maybe they could be duel purpose  tracking/surveillance and anti personnel ?
  
  [4]("Secondary Information" Espionage) I think this is what Kiaari is going to do for Jason all ready

• [2] Faey passive sensors detect unique radiation (electromagnetic?) generated by PPGs. It can be shielded. You cannot shield from passive radar, unless you don't use radar/radio waves sources at all: not as altimeter (laser altimeter or gravimeter used as altimeter), not as IFF (don't need IFF if you are alone), not for passing tactical information to other pilots (ditto), not radar itself (you can turn it off).
  
  [3] Good idea, adding offensive microdots (or offensive capabilities to microdots). The former probably would be better, as offensive measures would need more energy, thus larger batteries.
  
  [4] Information provided by Kimdori ("active" espionage) would be invaluable in determining patterns, i.e. how o interpret mentioned secondary information, like network traffic, or cipher used, or the length of encrypted messages. And it would be better to have more sources of information.

[Phantom]

• [2] Faey passive sensors detect unique radiation (electromagnetic?) generated by PPGs. It can be shielded. You cannot shield from passive radar, unless you don't use radar/radio waves sources at all: not as altimeter (laser altimeter or gravimeter used as altimeter), not as IFF (don't need IFF if you are alone), not for passing tactical information to other pilots (ditto), not radar itself (you can turn it off).
  
  [3] Good idea, adding offensive microdots (or offensive capabilities to microdots). The former probably would be better, as offensive measures would need more energy, thus larger batteries.
  
  [4] Information provided by Kimdori ("active" espionage) would be invaluable in determining patterns, i.e. how o interpret mentioned secondary information, like network traffic, or cipher used, or the length of encrypted messages. And it would be better to have more sources of information.

• [2]

  That took him two days. After that, he addressed the problem of blocking sensors. There really was
  no dependable technology to do so, at least none in the public doman (though there probably were a bunch
  tha were considered top secret), relying instead on hiding the sources of energy that would be detected by
  the sensors. Faey sensors had a very wide array of detection capability, but they werent as sensitive as
  Jason would have thought. With their other technology, hed have thought that their sensors could find an
  individual human in a city by his unique biorhythms, but they could not. They could detect life, but
  couldnt discern between organisms of the same general size. They could tell a tree from an animal, but
  couldnt tell a fox from a coyote, or a bear from a human, and they could not pinpoint a return that faint
  from a great distancesuch as from orbit. From orbit, the area around Huntington was just one big blur of
  life, with no hope of separating individual life signs. The closer the sensor array was, the more accurate
  it could getwhich was why those sensor pods on those dropships were so dangerous to them.
  That sent him back to Civnet, for an intense search on the exact way that Faey sensors operated. They
  had two modes, passive and active, much like the old sonar used by ships and submarines.
  Passive waslistening for certain energy signatures, and active was bouncing a signal off an area to check for the specific pattern of the return. How the signal was returned would tell them the physical makeup of the material in question, and those were rather sensitive. Maya had him hide the skimmer under the bride to protect it against that sensor technique, while keeping it powered down protected it from the passive type.
  He brainstormed constantly for days, often forgetting to eat and sleep. Temika returned during that
  time, but he barely remembered it. He would come up to his kitchen and find food sitting on the table, left
  by Clems group, and have no idea how it got there, if he cooked it, or anything. Hed been leaving his
  door unlocked. Every iota of his attention was focused on the single task of devising a means to defeat
  Faey sensors, to hide him and his equipment from scans. The carbidium defended against the passive
  sensors by shielding the energy signature of what was behind it, but there was no way to defend that piece
  of equipment against an active sweep, because it would detect the carbidium itself, as well as the energy
  signal it was hiding.
  The airbikes didnt have any kind or protection against the active component of Faey sensors, but the
  active portion wasnt as much of a danger to him because of the great distance involved between him and
  the sensors. At that range, the airbikes active signature was so small that the computer that washed the
  return for the sensor operator very well might attribute it to a magnetic anomoly, where a shift or disruption
  in the Earths magnetic field caused a bounce, or a false return. Thats why Kumi hadnt been worried
  about the airbikes, feeling that all they needed were signature maskers. The skimmer, on the other hand,
  was way too large to avoid detection. But, if those sensors were closer, like those dropships using sensor
  pods, then the smaller items were going to get detected. Either dropship would have picked up his airbike
  had it not been in his skimmer, which itself was under the bridge.

  We can see from this quote that Faey sensors behave as you discribed
  The Passive Search looks for unique siginatures Be they naturaly occuring or man/Faey made ..... the one limiting fact is distance the closer the sensor to the target the better it works. They don't just look for PPG's.
  Active sensors actively (ping or Pulse) for a unique target based on it's properitys (Ie: organic, Inorganic, man/Faey made. ect.)
  
  However in rereading this quote i did strike a great idea...
  Faey sensor tech isn't refined enough yet (But could be)
  What if they were fine tuned so you could search for a individual human in a city by his unique biorhythms.
  Namely the Dna makeup (the unique biorhythms if you will) of human telepath's ?
  Then Jason or the Faey would have no problem locating
  any other human telepaths.

Phantom