Chap 8 Spoilers

[Hearly]

Phantom, there's nothing saying that The Scimitar is the same ship used by those who went to Exile, At least that I remember reading.

Also dealing with the Trefani's to me there simplest thing would be for them to setup a stargate someplace and use it (in the Chapter, she took some Private stargates from the houses to finish the network, meaning they have there own which go where ever they want) to continue to smuggle...

[Fel]

To answer "how did the Consortium get Karinne engines," the answer is that the Scimitar was NOT the ship the Exiled used to get there. The Consortium found the Exiled, captured their dropships, and tracked the KES ship they used to where it jumped to await further orders by interrogating the captured Karinnes.

When the KES ship's computer realized it was about to be captured, it self-destructed, and shattered every biogenic computer on board in a cascade overload. The Consortium managed to recover some Karinne technology from the debris, mainly because only the front half of the ship was completely destroyed. They recovered one of the two engines, and it was complete enough for them to reverse engineer it to learn how it worked.

This is why the Consortium was able to reproduce Karinne power and Karinne engines, but had no biogenic computers to study. All they had were interfaces, but the biogenics those use are very different from Generation biogenic systems. They tried to master biogenic technology from the interfaces, but they failed.

They failed because biogenic systems in interfaces are not self-sustaining. They wear out after about 20 years, they "age and die," and have to be regenerated or replaced. The Consortium couldn't regenerate the crystals, they didn't know how, so when they built their bridge and returned to Andromeda, the interfaces all stopped working and the crystals decayed after only 5 years of research. From the brief time they had, they managed to learn the very, very basics of biogenic technology, and they learned just enough to know that they wanted it BADLY.

So, when the Karinnes resurfaced over a thousand years later, the Consortium realized that the biogenics secrets were not lost, and they immediately acted.

[SYED]

awesome story, any chance of the empress inviting others to join the imperium, i mean huge fleet threatening planets, but the imperium is now fortiefies, that has to be attractive. also, in the past, the item that the ancient faey karines left on earth, also, lost species or home planet of the colonies

[Phantom]

Phantom, there's nothing saying that The Scimitar is the same ship used by those who went to Exile, At least that I remember reading.

Also dealing with the Trefani's to me there simplest thing would be for them to setup a stargate someplace and use it (in the Chapter, she took some Private stargates from the houses to finish the network, meaning they have there own which go where ever they want) to continue to smuggle...

Well it is kinda hinted ....but i assumed it was from this Quote

The ship’s logs supported that. The logs stated that after the Scimitar got word of the attack, and then the final warning for all Karinnes to flee came down, they decided to do what Jason’s own ancestors must have done. They found a good planet that could support life and evacuated to it with every bit of equipment and supplies they could get, which seemed odd to Jason. They could have waited on the ship itself, but they had instead chosen to make camp on a planet and wait it out. Then they had the ship hide in that nebula and wait for a recall order, an order that never came. The ship had the location of the planet where the Faey went in its memory, and Jason was of a mind to go there and see if there were any Faey there, see if they’d managed to establish a colony of exiles.
“What do you think of all this, Maya?” Yana asked as they sat in a narrow crawlspace with Jason, who had half his body stuck in a bulkhead as he worked a damaged piece of conduit free of an exchanger and a junction where it went through a bulkhead.

So That means there are other Karinne Colonys out there still
and

They failed because biogenic systems in interfaces are not self-sustaining. They wear out after about 20 years, they "age and die," and have to be regenerated or replaced. The Consortium couldn't regenerate the crystals, they didn't know how, so when they built their bridge and returned to Andromeda, the interfaces all stopped working and the crystals decayed after only 5 years of research. From the brief time they had, they managed to learn the very, very basics of biogenic technology, and they learned just enough to know that they wanted it BADLY.

So that Means My time line isn't far off the money ....the Consortium had to have found the Exiled with in 20 years within 15 years actualy of the Time Karis was destroyed and the Karinnes Fled.

So my bet is Still that some how The Consortium caused or at least helped cause The Faey to attack the Karinnes and Karis durring the 3rd Civil war.

Humm Oh will Empress Dahnai be PISSED if she ever learns that fact .....that The Consortium helped to drive the wedge between Merrane, the Imperium and Karinne's causing them to attack and destroy the Karinne's durring the 3rd Civil war.

Oh damn if or when that fact comes out it's going to Drive not only Dahnai Balistic but the Kimdori as well
Knowing that The Consortium helped to cause the destruction of Karis and the Karinnes and they missed catching that information and possiably stoping the loss of Clan.
I can't think of any other thing that would so Enrage the Kimdori to act
I don't think the imperium or anyone has any idea of what lengths the kimdori will be willing to go to once they learn about this if it's true.

History teaches that Japanese Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto once said "I fear all we have done is to awaken a sleeping giant and fill him with a terrible resolve."

I feel that maybe the case here too.


Phantom

[michaelsuave]

There was a part in chapter 8 where they stated that the insect like minds of the consortium were protected from faey telepathy by the very nature of their insect like minds. However, I don't think this would protect them from urumi telepathy, as the urumi are related to insects and could possibly have the same type of mind work. Yes the urumi are susseptible to faey attack, but that is because the urumi are closer to faey then the consortium are. Perhaps the urumi telepaths are the missing link to attacking the insects with telepathy? Could practice on a kizzik drone to find out...

Another weapon idea. They have metals that exist in both hyperspace and real space. Is it possible to excelerate this material at hyperspace velocity yet have a presence in real space? Would it be possible to make a missle or projectile out of this material, make an uber railgun perhaps?

How about stealthed sauron's rings to attack the enemy bases? itch attack and destroys the plazma conduit? Heck, launch stealthed meteorites at the enemy base. cheap ammo and the impact will do some serious damage. how about railgun rounds made out of hell marbles?

Ultimate weapon idea. Make a star go supernova in the systems where the consortium are putting their bases (assuming they are building their bases near a star and not out in deep space*)

Genetic warfare: The karrienes can tailor a virus to a specific race, along with the moridons that is. Create a similar DNA specific virus, plant it on some of the insect consortium, put them in stasis, and send them back to the andromeda system. Just as with jason, it takes a while for symptoms to appear, exists in the general atmosphere of a planet once released, and is incredibly hard to stop if you don't know exactly what it is and how to stop it.

[boballab]

The possibility that there is other Karinne colonies, besides exile and earth, has always been a possiblity. Dahnai herself stated the reason the Karinne banner was never taken down was because all the Karinnes couldn't be accounted for.

With all due respect, your Majesty, but I must protest! There are no more Karinnes! The line is dead!”
“They never found all the Karinnes, Maeri. That’s why the banner is still up. Until we can prove that the entire Karinne family has been destroyed, there is still a house of Karinne.

Then there is other points involved, The Karinnes were very much into deep space research and there was the warning from Karis which would let them escape.

In his mind, an image formed, almost like looking at a monitor. It was a Faey woman with long white hair, wearing a gestalt, and there was smoke behind her. Anyone who receives this beacon broadcast, turn around immediately! she seemed to say. We are under attack by Seditionist forces! All Karinnes—

Actually, Songa sent. It was documented to the last member of those they could reach. The Karinnes were a house of scientists, and they always had members out on scientific missions. When word reached the expeditions of the war and the attack on Karinne, most of those expeditions snuck back to the Imperium and went into hiding. There was quite a bit of literature about it. There are some who think that some of the Karinnes escaped and lived out their lives pretending to be commoners, because some of them were never found.

As shown there was a warning to the Karinnes out on scientific missions and at least some have completely disappeared. The ones that snuck into the Imperium and lived the Kimdori spotted them long ago and worked to protect them. However the odds would say there would be more then just the ship that went to Earth, the group on Exile, The Scimitar and the one the Consortium got. So there might be more out there.

However interesting that might be I believe the answer will be buried in Cybi's database somewhere. What I think people don't realize is exactly how much is in Cybi's database. The Imperium as we know it, tech wise, was built on Karinne research. The Karinne's prior to the Second Civil War were just like every other house. It wasn't until the Second Civil War (haven't found dates yet on it) when Caenry Karinne came up with the theories on phased Plasma and sold off 75% of Karinne holdings that they got into serious research followed by the founding of the Academy.

But things changed after the Second Civil War. After being awarded more territory, Caenry Karinne, the grand duchess at that time, sold off one of the gained star systems to raise money and used it to invest in her house’s research efforts. That was a name Jason recognized, not for Karinne, but her first name. The Caenry Theorum was the fundamental theorum of phased plasma physics. Jason had no idea that Caenry was a Karinne. A little more reading showed Jason that the Karinnes did way more than develop the fundamental theorum of phased plasma physics. Caenry was responsible for surrendering more than 75% of Karinne territory, but the money she raised went straight into research. Hard shields, the first spatial warping experiments, ion weapons, the basics of plasma power, hot plasma weaponry, and the first experiments in metaphased plasma weapon technology were all researched by the Karinnes. It could be said with high authority that the House of Karinne was the cradle of modern Faey technology. The stargates, MPACs, spatial engines, all of it could be traced back to groundbreaking Karinne research.

However you can get a time frame from something said to Jason and Myleena:

Karinne engineers devised a means of modulating harmonic teryon strings to broadcast transmissions utilizing hyperspace. The energy particle was named in honor of Tery Karinne, who discovered it in 2329.

So Caenry Karinne had to be before the year 2329 and Karis was destoyred in 2887. The Academy on Karis had been in existance for well over 500 years and all that knoweledge was dumped into Cybi's Database. So when Jason asked to see all of it that much knoweledge would be too much to absorb in just one sitting. Even Cybi doesn't have immediate grasp of everything in her databanks, she had to search for the rule that allowed Miaari to be on Karis. So there could be something tucked away in her Databanks overlooked.

[SYED]

targets:
earth, gateway to the fortified systems place where the fleet need to attack
arrival point of 30000 ships and base
existing bases

these are places where consortium will be, traps and attack points. mines and weapon stations for ships while stationary targets marbles and saurons rings. if missiles have marbles how would they get through armour, also what would stop it going through the hole made by the missile. oh and tow asteroids so they come in from distances then strike basses

the planets that get new defences are a threat to consortium as they could cost ships, can not be aloud to spread

are the consortium telepathic

[Phantom]

The possibility that there is other Karinne colonies, besides exile and earth, has always been a possiblity. Dahnai herself stated the reason the Karinne banner was never taken down was because all the Karinnes couldn't be accounted for.

With all due respect, your Majesty, but I must protest! There are no more Karinnes! The line is dead!”
“They never found all the Karinnes, Maeri. That’s why the banner is still up. Until we can prove that the entire Karinne family has been destroyed, there is still a house of Karinne.

True i'd forgoten that when i was Trying to make the point there might be others still out there.
But as to the Banner I supect it's still being there had a lot more to do with Kimdori involvment then anything else.

Then there is other points involved, The Karinnes were very much into deep space research and there was the warning from Karis which would let them escape.

In his mind, an image formed, almost like looking at a monitor. It was a Faey woman with long white hair, wearing a gestalt, and there was smoke behind her. Anyone who receives this beacon broadcast, turn around immediately! she seemed to say. We are under attack by Seditionist forces! All Karinnes—

that was just the message on the beacon ....I'd asume that more was sent Via Teryon Transmitter then just that. ...We know that the Kimdori for instance recived much more detailed instructions than that.

Actually, Songa sent. It was documented to the last member of those they could reach. The Karinnes were a house of scientists, and they always had members out on scientific missions. When word reached the expeditions of the war and the attack on Karinne, most of those expeditions snuck back to the Imperium and went into hiding. There was quite a bit of literature about it. There are some who think that some of the Karinnes escaped and lived out their lives pretending to be commoners, because some of them were never found.

As shown there was a warning to the Karinnes out on scientific missions and at least some have completely disappeared. The ones that snuck into the Imperium and lived the Kimdori spotted them long ago and worked to protect them. However the odds would say there would be more then just the ship that went to Earth, the group on Exile, The Scimitar and the one the Consortium got. So there might be more out there.

The real interesting part is not as i assumed like you that there must have been Karinnes out on Several scientific missions when it happened.....but i find it interesting that No Karinne ships (besides the three in the base) were found
around or near Karis..Interesting if you think about it because we know that the Faey never recovered any or they'd have had Karinne engines sheilds and armor almost 1300 years ago.
How do you say could they have escaped ...well we know the Faey at that time weren't yet using Metaphased systems (Mpacs)
and we have already seen how well 1300 year old Karinne ships can hold up to What they can toss at them by todays Standards.
Being able to Disable and Stop a Karinne Scout ship (or any other) determined to escape the system 1300 years ago would have been damn near a mission impossible.
and we have to assume that House Karinne possessed more then just the 6 ships we know for sure of. (one destroyed at Earth, the one used by the Karinnes on Exile Destroyed and Captured, The Simmatar (Retreived from deep space) and the 3 that were Trapped inside the Base.)

However interesting that might be I believe the answer will be buried in Cybi's database somewhere. What I think people don't realize is exactly how much is in Cybi's database. The Imperium as we know it, tech wise, was built on Karinne research. The Karinne's prior to the Second Civil War were just like every other house. It wasn't until the Second Civil War (haven't found dates yet on it) when Caenry Karinne came up with the theories on phased Plasma and sold off 75% of Karinne holdings that they got into serious research followed by the founding of the Academy.

But things changed after the Second Civil War. After being awarded more territory, Caenry Karinne, the grand duchess at that time, sold off one of the gained star systems to raise money and used it to invest in her house’s research efforts. That was a name Jason recognized, not for Karinne, but her first name. The Caenry Theorum was the fundamental theorum of phased plasma physics. Jason had no idea that Caenry was a Karinne. A little more reading showed Jason that the Karinnes did way more than develop the fundamental theorum of phased plasma physics. Caenry was responsible for surrendering more than 75% of Karinne territory, but the money she raised went straight into research. Hard shields, the first spatial warping experiments, ion weapons, the basics of plasma power, hot plasma weaponry, and the first experiments in metaphased plasma weapon technology were all researched by the Karinnes. It could be said with high authority that the House of Karinne was the cradle of modern Faey technology. The stargates, MPACs, spatial engines, all of it could be traced back to groundbreaking Karinne research.

However you can get a time frame from something said to Jason and Myleena:

Karinne engineers devised a means of modulating harmonic teryon strings to broadcast transmissions utilizing hyperspace. The energy particle was named in honor of Tery Karinne, who discovered it in 2329.

So Caenry Karinne had to be before the year 2329 and Karis was destoyred in 2887. The Academy on Karis had been in existance for well over 500 years and all that knoweledge was dumped into Cybi's Database. So when Jason asked to see all of it that much knoweledge would be too much to absorb in just one sitting. Even Cybi doesn't have immediate grasp of everything in her databanks, she had to search for the rule that allowed Miaari to be on Karis. So there could be something tucked away in her Databanks overlooked.

Oh that timeframe was never in Question it's well Known ....I was working one a timeline that included the consortium's entrance in to this Galaxy.
And If we work from the assumption that the consortium saw the Karinnes as a threat that had to be removed.
we need to ask why did they ? .....
Did the Karinnes perhaps maybe bump into the consortium in this galaxy 1300 years ago on one of their research missions and escape? an almost indestructiable Scout ship armed or not that could escape and evade your forces would be something that would make most militaristic Races at the least very nervous.

So let's say they met or are at least both aware of each other ...the Karinnes being courious as they were start to maybe investigate these new beings. the consortium being what it is See's the Karinnes as a threat or maybe just maybe they saw all of the Faey as a threat and helped start the 3rd Civil war to get the Faey out of the way. But the Karinnes Suddenly are a much bigger threat then just the Faey so they've got to go.
(now a thought I've been pondering is if the Karinnes did as many scientific Missions and Research as it seems they must have. they must have cataloged an impressive database of planets.)
Still another thought thats Spinning in my head is the kimdori phrase "a secret unspoken remains a secret" and Cybi
The Karinnes Built Cybi as a disaster recovery site and as any good admin will tell you Reduntancy is the key.
Is there another Karinne back up site somewhere else in the galaxy ?
Did any of the missing Karinnes Continue doing research elsewhere ? 1300 years is a long time

targets:
earth, gateway to the fortified systems place where the fleet need to attack
arrival point of 30000 ships and base
existing bases
these are places where consortium will be, traps and attack points. mines and weapon stations for ships while stationary targets marbles and saurons rings. if missiles have marbles how would they get through armour, also what would stop it going through the hole made by the missile. oh and tow asteroids so they come in from distances then strike basses

Good ones but your forgetting the consortium came to colonize this gallaxy and some where out there is an old a hyperspace bridge too.

the planets that get new defences are a threat to consortium as they could cost ships, can not be aloud to spread

are the consortium telepathic

Well with the interdictors opperating they will have a problem attacking those... but putting up and protecting any new ones while they are just going into opperation will be the problem

It's not for sure yet if they are telepathic or not .....but they are resistant to Faey telepathy
What we do know is they see the Faey as a threat to their plans....that could be becasue of telepathy, the Karinnes or just the biggest bully on the block syndrome.

I still have to wonder if there are still any secrets the Kimdori haven't revealed to Jason yet



Phantom

[dellstart]

Ok> I have to say,I haven't really looked to much in the forums , cause i have been too busy trying to reread this bloody long but so bloody great chapter!So if some points were missed or discussed already , please forgive me.


1)We see more into the beliefs of our Faey s friends. Do symone and Tim have the same agreement in regards to religion as jason and jyslin do?

2)Through out this chapter, we have a deepening of the connection between all the couples.Its kinda of Interesting to note , They look it as a kinda of business exchange , (at least at this stage), we will lend you ours , if you lend us yours.

3)Vulpar _ obligatory fox reference!! whats the possibility its really a kimdori in disguise?

4)Wish I coulda named my baby kid brother!Though you had to notice , who wanted dibs on the first born name.Damned Faey competitiveness

5)Does the Impiurim have or need the ability to make frozen faey icicles ?

6)Does moridon join with the Allies?

7)Jason's Epiphany -Finally he realizes what we have know for quite awhile.He has truly(due to his telepathy) merged into faey culture but only to a certian level.The fact he doesn't bow down to their ideology or retains that human drive and moral compass, shows exactly what he is. Like he said , a curious cross of two cultures.

8 ) shya expressing and everyone's as else.By golly the folks are going to need a a bailout just to be able to pay for all those presents.though why is it that Shya's gift as a listener, wasn't immediately activated , as soon as she could express? Shouldn't it have been immediately obvious to her< that shes hearing voices in her head etc Also i wonder what affect this is going to have on her ? I wonder if one of the reasons that symone is so fearless or outgoing , cant be attributed partly to the fact that she can hear others, and cant that help but bring out the mischievous side of a person.

9)Speaking of betrothals and breaking there of , who is our crown princess betrothed to or is she not?

10)What The Interface advancements? what is going to be the long term adavantage/

11)Jason team is really set up. They are prepared for fiscal , chemical and Guerrilla warfare.

To quote

Guerrilla warfare is distinguished from the small unit tactics used in screening or reconnaissance operations typical of conventional forces. It is also different from the activities of pirates or robbers. Such criminal groups may use guerrilla-like tactics, but their primary purpose is immediate material gain, and not a political objective.

Guerrilla tactics are based on intelligence, ambush, deception, sabotage, and espionage, undermining an authority through long, low-intensity confrontation. It can be quite successful against an unpopular foreign or local regime, as demonstrated by the Vietnam conflict. A guerrilla army may increase the cost of maintaining an occupation or a colonial presence above what the foreign power may wish to bear. Against a local regime, the guerrilla fighters may make governance impossible with terror strikes and sabotage, and even combination of forces to depose their local enemies in conventional battle. These tactics are useful in demoralizing an enemy, while raising the morale of the guerrillas. In many cases, guerrilla tactics allow a small force to hold off a much larger and better equipped enemy for a long time, as in Russia's Second Chechen War and the Second Seminole War fought in the swamps of Florida (United States of America). Guerrilla tactics and strategy are summarized below and are discussed extensively in standard reference works such as Mao's "On Guerrilla Warfare."


12)Spin doctors , it seems aren't only to be found in Washington.They have a intergalactic branch as well.The Consortium's tactics are quite sound .Conquer and divide through fear, greed and distrust . The revealing of the Karrine's secret was a master stroke as well. Quite a pickle that will prove for them to be.

Just want to conclude , that this situation reminded me of this famous quote.


Aragorn: Hold your ground, hold your ground. Sons of Gondor, of Rohan, my brothers. I see in your eyes the same fear that would take the heart of me. A day may come when the courage of men fails, when we forsake our friends and break all bonds of fellowship, but it is not this day. An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down, but it is not this day. This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you stand, Men of the West!

[Phantom]

Damn I think i might have just found an answer to one of my own questions
In message http://forums.sennadar.com/viewtopic.ph ... 102#p17105

As you might notice, the Karinnes always thought in the long term. Their patience and meticulous attention to detail concerning the Generations program is just one example of how "long term" they thought....97 generations worth of forward thinking.

"The keys to the future lie buried within the past."

The Secret is Buried in the past .......

Lets see Cybi was Buried in the past
Cybi also contains the Karinnes Past Could be the answer is Buried in Cybi

The Keys ...humm Lets say maybe Cybi knows where to find some thing the Karinnes Planed all ready planed for

A Karinne War fleet maybe ? ...they built Kosigi a base Buried in side a moon. with 3 partly completed War ships inside.

Buried inside a Moon ....humm I wonder and all those old tales from Earths Fokelore. What were the Karinnes doing near earth?

[My computer core can be withdrawn to the upper mantle of Karis,] it replied. [At the beginning of the attack, I was evacuated, and I was reseated in my original position after it was safe to do so. This is the Disaster Recovery Center, Jason. This compound exists to deal with a disaster. The Karinnes planned for disaster, but I do not think they could plan for what happened to Karis. When it was over, I was the only CBIM remaining, and upon me fell the task of undertaking disaster recovery procedures.]

If they didn't foresee some thing like that happening to Karis why build Cybi so her computer core could be withdrawn to the upper mantle of Karis.
It's not really needed except for protection from anysort of Space based attack.
It was planed to protect Cybi from an attack by the Consortium.

That's why there were Warships inside Kosigi the Karinnes were getting ready incase the Consortium ever
attacked. they never expected to be attacked by their own people.

DAMN <Smacks Self in the Head> I read it i don't know how many times and dismissed it

[Welcome,] the holographic figure sent, lacking any warmth or emotion, a simple mechanical voice
given telepathic form. [Stand forth, child of Sora Karinne of the First Generation, and be recognized.]
Jason remembered that name, the name of the woman whose picture was in that file he read, the one
with the long straight hair—he looked at this projection, and realized that her features were the same. This
hologram was patterned on the appearance of Sora Karinne!
Jason and Myleena stepped out from the middle of the Marines.
[Welcome home,] the projection told them. [Will there be others returning home? Are you the
vanguard of the exiles?]
We, we don’t know, but us two are the only ones we know about, Jason sent to the projection in reply.
Excuse our confusion, but we don’t understand. We don’t understand what’s going on. Who are you?
How did this place survive the attack?

I read it and just dismissed it ....just like i assumed that the KES Scimitar was the same Ship the the Karinne's used to get to the planet Exile.

Talk possiably about stacking the Deck damn damn damn ...Fel your Either TRUELY TRUELY EVIL or i'm misreading clues again.
But did you really Plan this way back then ? was all of this planed back when you were still writing the First part?
did you plan to continue on to this point even back then ?

Well you did plot the names for the next two books so i guess maybe you did.



Now i've really got a headache.

Phantom

[boballab]

Damn I think i might have just found an answer to one of my own questions
In message http://forums.sennadar.com/viewtopic.ph ... 102#p17105

As you might notice, the Karinnes always thought in the long term. Their patience and meticulous attention to detail concerning the Generations program is just one example of how "long term" they thought....97 generations worth of forward thinking.

"The keys to the future lie buried within the past."

The Secret is Buried in the past .......

Lets see Cybi was Buried in the past
Cybi also contains the Karinnes Past Could be the answer is Buried in Cybi

The Keys ...humm Lets say maybe Cybi knows where to find some thing the Karinnes Planed all ready planed for

A Karinne War fleet maybe ? ...they built Kosigi a base Buried in side a moon. with 3 partly completed War ships inside.

Buried inside a Moon ....humm I wonder and all those old tales from Earths Fokelore. What were the Karinnes doing near earth?

[My computer core can be withdrawn to the upper mantle of Karis,] it replied. [At the beginning of the attack, I was evacuated, and I was reseated in my original position after it was safe to do so. This is the Disaster Recovery Center, Jason. This compound exists to deal with a disaster. The Karinnes planned for disaster, but I do not think they could plan for what happened to Karis. When it was over, I was the only CBIM remaining, and upon me fell the task of undertaking disaster recovery procedures.]

If they didn't foresee some thing like that happening to Karis why build Cybi so her computer core could be withdrawn to the upper mantle of Karis.
It's not really needed except for protection from anysort of Space based attack.
It was planed to protect Cybi from an attack by the Consortium.

That's why there were Warships inside Kosigi the Karinnes were getting ready incase the Consortium ever
attacked. they never expected to be attacked by their own people.

DAMN <Smacks Self in the Head> I read it i don't know how many times and dismissed it

[Welcome,] the holographic figure sent, lacking any warmth or emotion, a simple mechanical voice
given telepathic form. [Stand forth, child of Sora Karinne of the First Generation, and be recognized.]
Jason remembered that name, the name of the woman whose picture was in that file he read, the one
with the long straight hair—he looked at this projection, and realized that her features were the same. This
hologram was patterned on the appearance of Sora Karinne!
Jason and Myleena stepped out from the middle of the Marines.
[Welcome home,] the projection told them. [Will there be others returning home? Are you the
vanguard of the exiles?]
We, we don’t know, but us two are the only ones we know about, Jason sent to the projection in reply.
Excuse our confusion, but we don’t understand. We don’t understand what’s going on. Who are you?
How did this place survive the attack?

I read it and just dismissed it ....just like i assumed that the KES Scimitar was the same Ship the the Karinne's used to get to the planet Exile.

Talk possiably about stacking the Deck damn damn damn ...Fel your Either TRUELY TRUELY EVIL or i'm misreading clues again.
But did you really Plan this way back then ? was all of this planed back when you were still writing the First part?
did you plan to continue on to this point even back then ?

Well you did plot the names for the next two books so i guess maybe you did.



Now i've really got a headache.

Phantom

Thats what I was driving at, Cybi has so much information crammed into her databanks, even she doesn't know it all immediately. Time and again Jason asks her a question and she has to search for the answer, so there could be other hollow moons out there so to speak. However I don't think they are manned or operational. Remember Cybi's broadcast was omnidirectional and picked up signals from all operating Biogenic computers, even the ones on Kimdori Prime which couldn't answer directly back. Any Manned Karinne outpost with operating tech would have talked to a CBIM, they would know that no one but a Generation could operate one. Anyone else would cause bad things to happen like the CBIM either killing someone or blowing itself up. At the minimum they would have jumped back to Karis to investigate. So if there is any more live Karinnes out there the odds say they are in the same boat as the Exiles or Jason's ancestors. IF there is anymore Karinne outposts the Biogenic computers have run out of power and Cybi couldn't detect them, However there locations should be located on star charts in Cybi's databanks and Jason could go to them and reactivate them with new power sources.

As to what they were doing at earth:

[Jason’s ancestor was not one of the lunar crew, for his DNA indicates he is directly of your line, Myleena,] the computer told them. [The only unaccounted for member of your line from that era is Zera Karinne, older sister of Zuy and Gora Karinne, a xenobotanist by scientific profession. Records indicate she was on a scientific expedition to a rim system at the time of the destruction of Karis. I would assume that instead of returning to the Imperium, she fled into unexplored space, and ultimately landed on your Earth.]

So going by that it was an accident, they were fleeing and stumbled across earth, however why did they flee from out on the rim? Jasons ancestor was a xenobotanist so their must have been at least a planet that sustained plant life so why leave it? one possibuility there is something there they don't want found. At that time the Karinnes and the Kimdori were the only ones that could make real time jumps out to the rim. The other possibility is that is were the consortium came into the milky way

The thing I always wondered was what caused the Consortium to scrap their colonization effort 1300 years ago. As previously stated they have colonized 3 other galaxies so they must have a routine down and I don't think that includes just packing up and heading home.

I also don't think they caused the third civil war, not from the way Zaa talked. She states that it was a Kimdori failure that ignited it. To me it sounds like just prior to the third civil war the Imperium was pretty much in the same situation Jason found it in when he claimed House Karinne. You had the Kimdori working to keep the Faey looking inward and just like now some of the Noble houses were looking to move up. They got powerful enough that a coalition of them took on the Empress and won. However what I do see happening is that the Consortium comes trotting in fat dumb and happy looking to set up colonies and stumbling across the Imperium. From this point one of two things could have happened. They tried fighting with a Faey fleet and found out at that time the Faey were overall more advanced then them or they saw two Faey fleets fighting each other and again saw that they were outclassed and boogied for home. That is the only way I could see them not going through with the colony effort, fear of the Faey finding them. From that point they got lucky with the Exiles and Karinne tech.

[Phantom]

Thats what I was driving at, Cybi has so much information crammed into her databanks, even she doesn't know it all immediately. Time and again Jason asks her a question and she has to search for the answer, so there could be other hollow moons out there so to speak. However I don't think they are manned or operational. Remember Cybi's broadcast was omnidirectional and picked up signals from all operating Biogenic computers, even the ones on Kimdori Prime which couldn't answer directly back. Any Manned Karinne outpost with operating tech would have talked to a CBIM, they would know that no one but a Generation could operate one. Anyone else would cause bad things to happen like the CBIM either killing someone or blowing itself up. At the minimum they would have jumped back to Karis to investigate. So if there is any more live Karinnes out there the odds say they are in the same boat as the Exiles or Jason's ancestors. IF there is anymore Karinne outposts the Biogenic computers have run out of power and Cybi couldn't detect them, However there locations should be located on star charts in Cybi's databanks and Jason could go to them and reactivate them with new power sources.

Except If you remember When Miaari First came to Karis to investigate who was was there <Grin> Cybi had to search to see if it was a condition under which the kimdori were allowed to be there.
I think there are some Directives or commands that Cybi is not aware of until certian events or things take place

I also think that it's possiable that there could be another CBIM out there ...either or it might not have an operational Interface/transmitter ....Maybe it's shielded from detection and under orders not to respond.
it's also possiable that after 1300 years it's been upgraded and is no longer detectiable by Cybi(i know it's a longshot)

As to what they were doing at earth:

[Jason’s ancestor was not one of the lunar crew, for his DNA indicates he is directly of your line, Myleena,] the computer told them. [The only unaccounted for member of your line from that era is Zera Karinne, older sister of Zuy and Gora Karinne, a xenobotanist by scientific profession. Records indicate she was on a scientific expedition to a rim system at the time of the destruction of Karis. I would assume that instead of returning to the Imperium, she fled into unexplored space, and ultimately landed on your Earth.]

So going by that it was an accident, they were fleeing and stumbled across earth, however why did they flee from out on the rim? Jasons ancestor was a xenobotanist so their must have been at least a planet that sustained plant life so why leave it? one possibuility there is something there they don't want found. At that time the Karinnes and the Kimdori were the only ones that could make real time jumps out to the rim. The other possibility is that is were the consortium came into the milky way

See thats my point Was it truely an accident ? some ramdom chance ? or something else some other reason for choosing Earth... it was Some thing else Fel wrote got me really thinking about it.

“Faerie Folk, I’m not sure about that. I thought fairies were supposed to be little winged things.”
“Och, laddy, that’s just one interpretation,” the other librarian said. “The Faerie Folk are the elves of
old folklore, ye ken. They were said to be tall, graceful, handsome folk with pointed ears. The legends
said they lived in the land of Arcadia, a magical realm outside the bounds of our own world.”
“That sounds promising,” Rann mused. “Any words you can think of?” he asked Jason.
He shook his head. “Nothing comes to mind. The Faey words for realm or home aren’t even close.
The closest word that even relates I can think of is arcideinne, but that’s, ah, not exactly an appropriate
word.”
“Why, what does it mean?” Songa asked innocently, but he saw the wicked glint in her eye.
“Prostitute, generally,” he answered, giving her a short glare. “But it’s not a very nice word. And
you’re on the list,” he growled, pointing at Songa.
She broke down into delighted laughter, then winked at him.
“I dinna’ ken,” Rose said.
“She knew what that word meant. She just wanted to make Ja—Jack say it, that’s all,” Meya told them
from behind her helmet.
“Ah. I didna’ think that Faey had a sense of humor.”
“Oh, we do. It’s just not quite the same as a human’s,” Rann told the woman with a grin.
The books they were sent to read were interesting, and Jason learned a bit more about the legends of
the Faerie Folk. They were just as the librarian described, tales of elfin beings that lived in a magical world
called Arcadia, who crossed over into the human world. There were stories of humans and the Faerie Folk
interacting, both peacefully and in conflict, and dark tales of humans abducted and spirited away to
Arcadia, a magical realm of pristine forests where the Faerie Folk dwelled. Jason read that over the years,
the term Faerie became more attached to traditional fairies, while the term Sidhe or elf had come to
represent an appearance more Faey-like. But the librarian was right; in Scotland, the concept of a faerie
was not a diminutive winged creature, but a tall, elegant, regal, beautiful human-like creature of refined
bearing and gentle mannerisms, often richly dressed. They had similar legends in Ireland, where they were
called the Sidhe (odd that a word spelled that way was pronounced shee, but the word was Gaelic in origin),
but the Sidhe and the Faerie were basicly two names for a similar creature, just given different names for
different regions.
Sidhe. Now that word sounded familiar. It sounded like sehii, which in Faey, meant lost.
The most interesting part of what he read was the interaction between the Faerie Folk and the humans.
The Faerie Folk weren’t really written as dark or ominous beings, though there were several stories
concerning Banne Sidhe, or evil Sidhe, which curiously was the origin of the word banshee. They could be
fearsome, but only when angered or riled. So long as one didn’t anger a Faerie Folk, they were kind,
gentle, and helpful. They were attributed in many stories as bringers of happiness, bestowers of special
gifts on human newborns like beauty or luck or intelligence, and many of the stories he read through
attributed the Faerie Folk with peaceful, harmonious co-existence with the humans who bordered the
entrances to Arcadia, their magical homeland.

This got me to wonder if there isn't some sort of a base close to earth (the moon maybe)
Arcadia or arcideinne come awfuly close to the humn word Academy ...
But what if it does mean some place else....some place that was out side the imperium 1300 years ago.

The thing I always wondered was what caused the Consortium to scrap their colonization effort 1300 years ago. As previously stated they have colonized 3 other galaxies so they must have a routine down and I don't think that includes just packing up and heading home.

Well their Transmission in the last chapter gave away a lot maybe.

The next morning, the Consortium finally came out of the shadows.
In an open communication, a viddy recording of one of the energy beings was dropped on Jason’s desk
by Miaari. “Watch this,” she ordered, slotting the crystal and bringing it up.
The energy being was very odd to see up close. It was a swirling amorphous form very vaguely in a
bipedal shape, with a featureless head and arm-like protrusions, with a series of small devices surrounding
it…probably some means to maintain its integrity or something. “We represent the Consortium of Allied
Systems,” the recording began. “We are an empire of over four thousand systems in the galaxy you refer to
as Andromeda, and we have colonized three galaxies other than our own. We have come to right a wrong
against nature itself.
“The Faey Imperium is harboring an artificially developed creature, life that is not life,Artificial
Intelligence, which has twisted its own creators by genetic manipulation to serve itself. We will not permit
such an abomination to exist, for it is a threat to all things. The Faey known as Karinnes created this
abomination against life long ago, and we errantly believed it destroyed with the destruction of Karis in the
Faey Imperium’s Third Civil War, before we were in strategic position to destroy it ourselves. But we have
recently learned that the abomination has survived the war, and the remnants of Karinne have gathered to
serve it once again.“

This Has me thinking that maybe the Consortium knew a lot about the Karinnes long before they captured what was left of that Karinne Ship and kidnaped some of the Karinnes off Exile.
It also reinforces my belief that they had a hand in the destruction of the Karinnes and that the karinnes also might have known something about them. But the Consortium at that time was much too weak here to actively do anything about the Karinnes at that time.
But maybe just maybe the Karinnes saw the Consortium for the threat it was and were taking Long term steps to combat them if the need ever rose.
There is a reason why a house that never thought they needed or wanted war ships suddenly started building some.

but back to your statment I don't think the Consortium ever did scrap their colonization effort in fact i think it continues to this day ....but they met the Karinnes and saw the level of their technology and wanted it. ...and once they got parts of that Karinne ship and the Biogenics on it.....as Fel said ...They WANTED that BAD! but they thought it all lost to them as every attempt to check Karis was repelled by the Kimdori.... so until Jason returned to claim the Karinne House and repaired Cybi. I think they were just continuing to Build their colonys and bid their time (there is a Rumor that they are fighting another war back in their home galaxy maybe thats whats slowed them down here a lot) Maybe they are Having problems and Karinne tech is what they think they need to win there. but once again Karis was a Dead planet Burned out lifeless and radioactive nothing left, no karinnes, no Tech, no CBIM, No Rush. then A Generation appears and suddenly there is a CBIM left..... so thats why the overwhelming force to take Karis is on the way.

I also don't think they caused the third civil war, not from the way Zaa talked. She states that it was a Kimdori failure that ignited it. To me it sounds like just prior to the third civil war the Imperium was pretty much in the same situation Jason found it in when he claimed House Karinne. You had the Kimdori working to keep the Faey looking inward and just like now some of the Noble houses were looking to move up. They got powerful enough that a coalition of them took on the Empress and won. However what I do see happening is that the Consortium comes trotting in fat dumb and happy looking to set up colonies and stumbling across the Imperium. From this point one of two things could have happened. They tried fighting with a Faey fleet and found out at that time the Faey were overall more advanced then them or they saw two Faey fleets fighting each other and again saw that they were outclassed and boogied for home. That is the only way I could see them not going through with the colony effort, fear of the Faey finding them. From that point they got lucky with the Exiles and Karinne tech.

This quote and some others like it got me thinking

“Since the failure we suffered that was the Third Civil War, and the loss of our Karinne
cousins, we have debated our methods and have decided to take a more active hand, should this situation
rise again.

I don't think that the Consortium was ready to actualy attack the Karinnes 1300 years ago I think they knew that they wouldn't/couldn't win against their Tech...so instead they were sneaky and Covert ....I do think that Agents Of the Consortium acted much like the Kimdori and pushed both sides the Merranes and The Shovalles to attack the karinnes.
The Kimdori Failure was in they didn't or Couldn't see the danger to the Karinnes untill it was allready too late to stop it.
I got the Feeling that the Kimdori still don't completely understand how it happened.
that and the Fact that they let the Karinnes down and allowed them to be destroyed has troubled them greatly over the years.

Lots to think about ....How Evil is Fel Truly?

Phantom

[boballab]

Well I’m going to start with what’s known and work to speculation off that.

1. We know of minimum 3 groups/ships of Karinnes that didn’t sneak back into the Imperium

a. Group 1 is the ones on Exile. We know what happened to their scout ship.

b. Group 2 is the ones that were on the Scimitar and deserted it just like the Exile did. However we don’t know what happened to them the twins didn’t find them, they found the Exiled instead. I think Jason believes the ones on Exile are the ones from the Scimitar so there is that still hanging out there.

c. Group 3 is the ones that went to earth after leaving a planet in the Rim that had to have plant life or what would a xenobotanist be doing there. Also note that unlike the other two groups that had their scout ships fly off and wait for orders, this group decided to destroy the ship. Now taken independently those two points don’t seem suspicious, however together they are. They leave a planet that seems to be able to support life and then after arriving somewhere else they have the ship destroyed. That makes it look like they wanted no one to go to the planet they left. By destroying the ship and hiding on earth they left no trace of what they found on that planet. Because of the actions the other two groups, it appears that sending the ships off was a built in SOP for just such an emergency. If that is the case the actions of Jason’s ancestor seems mighty suspicious.

As to a base on earth’s moon it would have to be a completely dead base now. The Faey have been in Earth system for over 6 years and during that time the Kimdori have been there and they have systems that are Karinne equivalent. If the base had been operational they would have detected it. If you go by the premise that it shut down when the Imperium showed up they would still be monitoring and would have contacted either Jason or the Kimdori when House Karinne took over earth.

Now onto Cybi yep certain conditions have to be met or she needs to be asked a specific question or told specifically to search something. Another Example would be the Interdictors:

[I had a long talk with Cybi after last night, and she opened some of the secure files for me. I don’t know if she told you.]
[No, but she has the option to do it without my consent if it’s important.]
[Good, at least she won’t get in trouble.]

[That’s one of the research projects left over from our ancestors,] she told him. [It’s called a Hyperspace Interdictor. It’s almost exactly what we’re looking for.

This shows right there that if Myleena didn’t ask Cybi to go looking into the secure files the Interdictors would not have been found. Cybi doesn’t know what is in her Databanks until asked or a subroutine like in Miaari’s case causes her to look. Jason looked at everything in Subjugation focused on things the Karinnes actually built but there would be too much for him to remember it all and Myleena looked for something specific in the research database. So it’s almost a certainty there would be other things buried in the research database that neither Jason, Myleena or even Cybi know about yet.

Now the thing about the Consortium and their not being in Strategic postion to remember is that they jsut got in the Galaxy. Fel stated before that 1300 years ago the Consortium was way behind the Karinnes tech wise. We also know that the Imperium hasn't really improved their Tech base since the third civil war, so pretty much what you see in todays Imperial warships you saw back 1300 years ago. So imagine the Consortium shows up in their ships in the Karis area and watches as the Merannes first destroy Karis, then turn around and watch a huge space battle between the two Imperial fleets. That right there would tell the Consortium how far behind the Faey they are and that the Faey are NOT friendly neighbors. That is I believe what they meant by not being in a Strategic postion to do anything. They fled the area and then found the Exiles and their ship. They presented a bunch of truths in their communique but I believe they twisted the order of the way things happened for propaganda purposes.

We also need to consider that all these little clues and explanations Fel has been dropping lately are how should I put it…ah I got it Dubious in truthfulness. See the link below.


Fel you naughty boy I found a post back in the Insurrection chapter 6 Spoilers where you stated Dahnai doesn’t have Jason’s baby.
http://forums.sennadar.com/viewtopic.ph ... 508#p13508

[dellstart]

Good catch!

Got ya there fel!\

Unless its really not Jason baby. Oh boy , that would be devious.

IT does make sense , that as you have pointed out there was some form of contact.Just what and how and what karrines reaction was , requires some thought.

[Hearly]

Well I’m going to start with what’s known and work to speculation off that.
c. Group 3 is the ones that went to earth after leaving a planet in the Rim that had to have plant life or what would a xenobotanist be doing there. Also note that unlike the other two groups that had their scout ships fly off and wait for orders, this group decided to destroy the ship. Now taken independently those two points don’t seem suspicious, however together they are. They leave a planet that seems to be able to support life and then after arriving somewhere else they have the ship destroyed. That makes it look like they wanted no one to go to the planet they left. By destroying the ship and hiding on earth they left no trace of what they found on that planet. Because of the actions the other two groups, it appears that sending the ships off was a built in SOP for just such an emergency. If that is the case the actions of Jason’s ancestor seems mighty suspicious.

Where was it stated anywhere that the Ship that came to earth was at a Hospitable planet? I mean we can speculate all we want, all we do know is that there was a xenobotanist on The Ship who was a Generation., now does that mean they stop at every system they come across and check it out for any type of life? Does it have to be Livable for faey for them to explore it? etc..

I think we're assuming too much into fact which have not been shown nor proved.

I think we shouldn't assume that they were at a Livable planet for Faey, and decided to leave that one and come to Earth...

My Feelings are the Ship was just out researching Heard the Warning, and decided to keep going in the direction they were, or a direction that took them farther from Faey Controlled space and found Earth saw it was Livable for them, and decided to stay there.