fiferguy wrote:
You know though, it's the "intelligent" people that will have the hardest times. There are people who live deep in the swamps that won't have that hard a time. The school boats--that's right, boats--don't even go that far into the swamps, because a lot of them didn't come back out. But there are poeple in there. And I guarantee that those old boys will make it a lot better than the so called "educated and civilized" people living in the city.
Also, were_fan said "Houses could be built stronger to survive some weaker tornados." You can't build a house strong enough for a Category V tornado. I lived in Midwest City when the May 3rd tornado came though, and I helped with the cleanup and rescue efforts. When a tornado pulls concrete slabs out of the ground, and unroots trees, nothing is strong enough to not get knocked down. The best place to be is not in the way of it, cause if you are there won't be anything left.
Since we are talking about hurricane, I understand your "category V" typo instead of "F5". Please note that I said "weaker" tornado as in F0 to F3. Sorry for not being specific. Steel reinforced concrete will usually stand up to F3 but be damaged in an F4. You could build a structure to withstand F5 but its steel reinforced walls would probably need to be 3 or more feet thick .. think a wedge shaped pillbox.
Tornado F scale:
http://www.tornadoproject.com/fscale/fscale.htm
The problem with that is, there are people who can't get out of the way. Either they're too poor, too afraid, or just don't know in time. I know for myself, I can go days or weeks without turning on a TV or a radio. And I have several of each. Now if I was poorer, and I didn't have those things, I might not know about it till it hit. Or if you simply couldn't afford to get out of the way. I mean, all of us sit in our nice heated and air conditioned rooms, but a lot of the people in New Orleans are the poorest of the poor. It's already been stated that Louisiana is a poor state. So these would be the poorest of the poor.
If you read some of my other posts, I mentioned the poor, sick and elderly. They were screwed by the local plans that had no procedures for evacuatiing them. That IS the responsibility of local disaster plans.
Or perhaps they didn't want to leave their house and possessions. As someone who also can't afford insurance, I can understand that as well.
If it is life or posessions, we all make a choice. Some of the New Orleans folks made the wrong choice. Don't know why but maybe we can pray for their souls.
So all in all, I don't fault the people for staying, despite knowing (or not knowing) what was coming. I fault the 3-4 days to get help down there.
The TV reports showed the refugees going to the Superdome so all was apparently well. Well, we all know now that it wasn't well now. Federal aid must be requested then not tied up in red tape. A mobile hospital was held up by bureaucrats. Their help was refused.
See:
http://www.cnn.com/2005/HEALTH/09/04/ka ... cnn_latest
Did they know that there was a possiblity that a hurricane could eventually strike New Orleans? Sure. So does everyone from Virginia Beach to Brownsville. At one time or another, these places will get hit by a hurricane. And in the Bahamas and the rest of the Caribbean. Should all these people move?
And they will rebuild the same relatively flimsy structures that won't withstand hurricane winds. Sad. However, New Orleans is a special case. Folks keep buiulding on mud in a city that is 20 feet below sea level and still sinking WITH its levees. Thousands of years of building experience is ignored. So sad.
Now the obvious response to this would be, "Yes, but New Orleans was under the water level. So they were stupid." To which my response would be, well, what about all the homes in Southern California that are on the side of a hill. Should they move so they don't get caught in a mud slide?
SoCal area is again different. Homes were built where there was a previous mudslide. How many people were sold homes that didn't know about the problem?
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I have to agree, you probably could live all your life and never see a tornado. I myself have sense enough to get in the storm cellar when one's even rumored to be headed my way. But I can count at least 3 different times that the City of Moore has been devastated by a tornado in the last 10 years. Should all the people in Moore pack up and move?
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South Pekin has been hit several times also. Odds don't guarantee you won't get hit two years, months days or hours in a row. Rebuild and drive on! However, I'd surely use concretre and have a deep, strong basement.
I think the point is, it's not where you live. There are GOING to be natural disasters. No matter how much preparation you do, no matter how much you plan, they are going to hit you. People are going to die and property and possessions are going to get destroyed. The most important thing, and the one that the Bush administration has heartily botched, is to get the people effected help as quickly as possible.
Fifer
You do uinderstand that the states have to request Federal aid, don't you? The armed forces can't just march in since the Constitution forbids that. A similar relationship exists between local and state authorities. The states apparently tied things up in red tape or simply didn't have plans.
P.S. Were_Fan, I also am trained in Search and Rescue, both high altitude, normal, and underwater. I am a certified EMT, as well as Rescue Diver. I've worked most of the major tornadoes, the Murrah Building Bombing, and I was on a bus headed to Manhattan when they told us to turn back. I expect tornadoes every year. They're a common enough occurance. They usually don't hit the same place twice. Hurricanes happen every year, but they DON'T always hit New Orleans. Just like an earthquake, mudslide, volcano eruption, flood, blizzard, etc. There are prone areas, but every place that anyone lives in is prone to one thing or another. Saying they "KNEW' this day was coming is like saying I know that I'll get hit by a bus tomorrow. You can't predict 20 years or even a year in advance where a natural disaster will occur. You can predict when circumstances are right for a natural disaster, but you can't predict where it will happen. A draught is a good indication that a grassfire or a flood could happen is a good example, but doesn't tell you where it will happen. If you want to take that approach, everyone on this planet is living on borrowed time.
Then you are much more highly trained in Search and Rescue than I am. I hope you have been able to put that training to good use in the current disaster. Also hope if you went to New Orleans that the criminals didn't shoot at you.
P.P.S. Lake Effect snow can be a natural disaster if it dumps 8 feet overnight... been there.
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Folks used to stay inside when it snowed a lot. Or, they had snow shoes.
--
Jim
