World Creation

[The_Namer]

I've been fiddling with two worlds for a while, and was looking for some general advice. Does anyone here have any suggestions that might aid this kind of effort? I've got a fair amount of info on both already, but would appreciate any assistance.

[MommyDoom]

I've been fiddling with two worlds for a while, and was looking for some general advice. Does anyone here have any suggestions that might aid this kind of effort? I've got a fair amount of info on both already, but would appreciate any assistance.

uh, maybe I'm being dense here.. (my kid has been puking all day and I admit I'm a bit frazzled tonight) but advice on what? Fiddling with the two worlds... aid this effort... oh gads.  I have no idea what you need, my friend.  Help me out with a tiny bit more information and I'll be happy to give advice cuz that's what Mommies do.

*wince*

MommyDoom

[The_Namer]

Well, I was looking for some advice on world-creation in general, and anything specific problems or notables I should do/avoid/detail.

[MommyDoom]

Well, I was looking for some advice on world-creation in general, and anything specific problems or notables I should do/avoid/detail.

Ah, I see now.  You are a writer? And you are working on creating the worlds and environments in which your characters will live and love and interact.  

Can't help you.  Not a writer.  Not a WHIT of imagination do I possess, hence why I read a lot of fantasy.  I hope you get some feedback from the others, though.  Good luck my friend, and, when you get a few chapters written, feel free to post a link and we'll all read it and respond.  Free critiquing! We always have opinions and are willing to share them!

I'm outa here. I'm sure my kid is puking in his crib or something...

MD

[MISER]

OK

As an OLD Gamer and sometimes writer I offer the following.

Keep copious note of everything you do, and decree for your world. I mean something seperate from your writing.

Have the worlds Genesis and theology worked out in advance.

Keep everything as simple as you can, or it and your readers/users will bite you in the A--!

Before you start creating anything else decide what your systems of measures will be for everything. Begin with time, as other worlds have not got 24 hour 30 day 365 day cycles! And move on to linear and liquid measurements and related stuff. Last do the Money.

Then the flora and Fauna. Then The Map! and lastly the Dominant races.

Hope that helped.

John

P.S. I feel the need to caution you about meddling with other writers worlds.... My Own example.

Sometime back and more than once in our various forums we had been discussing writing our own short stories with Fels world and characters. I received permission to play with this general idea and his creations from Fel, I had an idea and a story line and was going places with creative energies and juices flowing. It was fun.

It got hard, and harder still and became a source of frustration. Basically around measures and factions that I didn't have notes on and had to refer back to forum information and chapter entries to ensure my facts and keep things as they were supposed to be.

Then I was nearing the end of my first 30 page mini novel and chapter and a sense of relief washed over me.  And I printed out a FINAL draft and could'nt stop myself from one last proof read.

Alas and some other four letter words I realised what I had done. My story set around a family of druids running an Inn for members of Fae Da Nar and others friendly to them was a pretty good story. But Inn's require lots of animal husbandry, I had the stablers to care for the guests mounts and pets. I had the section of their compound where veterinary practices occurred for the quaint furry friends who needed healing. I had the stock pens for the beasts slated to grace the dining hall. And they were right next to the other animals all of whom were tended by druids, or killed by druids and harvested by druids, who wouldnt friggin do that, as they dont ever injure or use for food, those they have tended and talked with, and provided protection etc....

Major gaff, not my world, my playing with Fel's world.

So learn from my mistake and remember your own rules and systems. The simpler the better. A mug of ale keeps you out of trouble. An english Pint in a Orcan Pub, on a foriegn planet, at a time 25,000 years before the earth had life, may get you put to the question!

Miser

[Fel]

Miser had some good advice, but I offer a bit more.

Every world starts with a map.  Make one.  Draw in rivers and mountains and oceans and items of interest, like volcanos or an archipelago or an escarpment, geographical features that might impact your world.

Now that you have your map, pick a single point on the map. Start there.  Put a town or a village there, and imagine what it's there for.  Imagine what it does. Imagine the people who live in it.  Imagine the geography of that town and its immediate outskirts.  Then imagine oh, that area north of that place.  Then south.  Then east, and so on.  Keep going further and futher out until you've made copious notes of the entire kingdom/country/nation/empire, then just move on to the next.

While you're looking at nations, decide on your politics.  Pick your "friendly" nations and your "antagonist" nations.  Describe their relationships, and the relationships they have with "neutral" nations.

Then decide where your cultures are going to be.  Sennadar, for example, has several cultures, and they're separated by significant geographical boundaries, as cultures usually are.  The Ungardt are separated from the southwestern Draconian culture by their frigid homeland.  The Draconian (a "western European" culture, encompassing virtually all the west) culture is separated from the Arkisians by the Frontier, and there are subsets of the Draconian cultures as well, like the Shaceans, for example...a unique sub-culture within the Draconian culture.  The Arkisians on both sides are separated from the Selani by the desert's borders, the Arkisians separated from the Nyrians by the Golden Mountains, and so on and so on.

It's also a good point in time while describing cultural boundaries to decide where the non-humans are going to live.

This is also a good time to decide on your pantheon of gods, and it's a good time to start thinking about the history of your world.  It doesn't have to be specific, but having a general idea of "how they all got there" is critical to making your world seem real.

After you have all that done, all around the world, make up your system of keeping time, your calendar, your weights and measures, your global monetary system, and all those little things that make a collection of notes and maps suddenly live and breathe.

It's not easy.  It took me about 10 years to get Sennadar just the way i wanted it...then I stopped playing AD&D, hehehe.  But it lives on in my books, and though it's all made up, to me, Sennadar sometimes seems like a real place, filled with unique and engaging personalities and a rich and detailed history.

[The_Namer]

Thanks to ye both. My greatest problem lies in the creation of a map. My artistic talents would embarass a five-year old, so it takes me a long time to get it right. Another quick question: Do you find it difficult to come up with names? Some just seem to flow out, but others stymie me for days, and I'm curious if this is common or just another sign of my incipient insanity.

[Shadowhawk]

P.S. I feel the need to caution you about meddling with other writers worlds.... My Own example.

Sometime back and more than once in our various forums we had been discussing writing our own short stories with Fels world and characters. I received permission to play with this general idea and his creations from Fel, I had an idea and a story line and was going places with creative energies and juices flowing. It was fun.

[...]

Then I was nearing the end of my first 30 page mini novel and chapter and a sense of relief washed over me.  And I printed out a FINAL draft and could'nt stop myself from one last proof read.

Miser, is this story (or draft of the story) suitable for viewing/reading? It doesn't need to be consistent to the minute details; minor inconsequences aren't that bad. If it is, could you post it somewhere for viewing, for example ask CanisD to put in at http://sennadar.plebian.net . I think it would be good place for fanfiction (like e.g. "Tsukatta: The Interdimensional Traveller" adventures, which borrow the character from Fel works, but not necessary the world).

[Journeywoman]

Sometimes names are a problem but I usually just find a site on the internet with girl/boy names because I usually have a sound I want but not quite the correct name. But if you don't have the patience or any clue http://www.seventhsanctum.com/ is a generator site that you may find useful.

[MISER]

Fel,

Good stuff there, and MUCH better advice. When I would set up a AD&D campaign I too would start with wherever my new map and general campaign plot took me. But I never wrote about my world in stories just game module lines. (which yes build a story and adventure) On the otherhand just reading that explains a great deal about why you are the author we all love to read so much. I've recognized for some time you spend alot of time and effort in thinking about your creations. But it was real nice to get a look into your mind here and actually see a little of the synaptic blue printing.... Thanks.

Shadow,

Thanks for the general encouragement of a desire to read my story. "Is it suitable for posting as fan fiction or other diversion?" Well by my frame of mind today NO! The day I finished the story I was all for it, and then I read it for that last draft, recognized my error, and have never felt as good about it again. Today I have the story still, but its been written and re-written in many forms, and exists as about 6 shorter stories, but without the cohesion of my original idea. I still have a list of other story ideas, I had back when I approached Fel for permission to use his world, that some day I want to play with. And I will. Maybe that would be a good way for me to pass the time in a couple of weeks while I am home recovering from an upcoming surgery for another couple of weeks!

But a thing or two. First I promised Fel, I would send him the story before anyone else ever got to see it, for a final, "OK put it out there". Second I have not done so because I am just not happy with it and may well be my own worst critic. I have learned that writing is hard work, reading is easy pleasure! Respect for an authors efforts has increased in my mind as a result. (which is why I don't bug the hell out of Fel for more regular installments anymore) We all know he could make bundles of cash off his works, we've told him we would buy the stories. There are hundreds of other readers out there with tastes like ours and cash in their pockets too.  I dont think my works are  that good, but my how I wish.....

Another element is courage. When you write for class or a scheduled deadline, eventually you are forced to provide a teacher or professor etc.. with a paper, story, project. But when its for fun and enjoyment of others, and in the end there is going to be a respect issue, then actually putting something out there, for public or even one other persons private review, is another matter. I am a pretty brave guy, I am a disabled Veteran, and an old Police Sgt. I have rushed into emergencies that were shocking, to try and help the innocent and victims. But this is worse than asking a girl out for the first time as a kid, or standing up for your beliefs in an hostile enviornment where you may be the underdog or opposition. Those are easy for me, before I do this, I want to know in my own mind the work is good enough! (not perfect just good enough!) I deserve it, Fel deserves it as a sign of respect, and you all deserve it, in a different form of respect, as readers. And in the end I want you to respect the work! Right now I am not sure, so my answer is still NO, sorry! But those other events I mentioned they got easier with practice, I take and hold my position in public, (I've done it on these very forums) I still stop at accidents, and work in another area of public safety, and rush into danger. And I am still writing. So if I get there with a product, I think is worth submitting to Fel, and he say's sure go ahead. Then YES!

In the mean time how about the rest of you readers all? We've mentioned this before many times. Has anyone else a story or fan-fic they can and are willing to share? And is there any one of the admin's, or web-host's who would/or/will donate space for us to post on?

I would put one caveat out there, that this is still a fairly family friendly site, and not the forums at penthouse. Based on some of the reccomended works/links folks have provided elsewhere as alternative reading  on these forums, we might want to not provide, or post, anything with more eros, than an encounter between Tarrin and one of his mates, as established and published previously by Fel.

Anyway there's my latest ramble. Have a good Columbus day all and stay safe, it keeps others from rushing into danger...LOL ;}

John

[MISER]

OOPS

Forgot the name question.

In short yes they are difficult. Sometimes you get one that fits like a good glove. Other times you come up with something that is as unlikely as a democrat voting againt a tax raise.

When true inspiration strikes its a good thing. Somedays you have to work at it!

Hope it helps to know you are not the only one.... And I just have to ask it... Is that why you call yourself "The NAMER?"

Miser

[Journeywoman]

Maybe that would be a good way for me to pass the time in a couple of weeks while I am home recovering from an upcoming surgery for another couple of weeks!

All the best for the operation, hope everything goes to plan.
It would be interesting to read your story mistakes or not but I can understand your reasoning and hope to read the good copy sometime.

[Spec8472]

And is there any one of the admin's, or web-host's who would/or/will donate space for us to post on?

If anyone needs webspace, let me know - if its not for porn/warez/something-that-will-get-me-arrested, I'll see what I can do to help you out.
The only thing is, it'll have to be on the .plebian.net domain space. Additionally, it'll be your responsibility to maintain the site.

Drop me a line to let me know what you want to host, and how big it'll be.


---

by the way, the information you and Miser have posted is great reading on its own.

[Lochar]

If anyone needs webspace, let me know - if its not for porn/warez/something-that-will-get-me-arrested, I'll see what I can do to help you out.

Pictures of kiddy porn while they're playing warez?  LOL

[The_Namer]

Hope it helps to know you are not the only one.... And I just have to ask it... Is that why you call yourself "The NAMER?"

That, and it refers to a magic system I've been working one (unrelated to the worlds).

Thanks again to everyone for the advice. I've spent the last few days of free time developing a nation, trying to get the way I imagine it into text. It's a bit frustrating, but I'm pretty happy with the results, and plan to painstakingly describe each area. One last question: When lacking artistic talent, how should one make a map? Any specific programs or tips for those of us who are art-impaired?