Spirit Walker - Spoilers - Chapters 1 through part of 14

[Weresmilodon]

Mmm... Remember that Danna is a Loreguard Officer. She has power, and she has connections. She makes investigations; she hunts objects/things/information of value to the Loremasters. She likely has a very good idea of how things work, and might eventually be able to influence them. Or she might just be squeezed for what information she has, and then be used for food.

[Hearly]

Mmm... Remember that Danna is a Loreguard Officer. She has power, and she has connections. She makes investigations; she hunts objects/things/information of value to the Loremasters. She likely has a very good idea of how things work, and might eventually be able to influence them. Or she might just be squeezed for what information she has, and then be used for food.

She is an Officer, but in the same breath she thinks there is rotten wood in the organization which she would like to remove (like those 4 guards who raped and killed that girl) I think she's a bit naive on how it works, she wants it to live up to the Ideals it enshrines but it doesn't work that way in practice..

[Weresmilodon]

True, true. Not that it'll probably matter when they get the information. I remember something about Coldfoot using magic to enter/read her mind directly. And while she might be a little too much of an idealist, she's likely also quite grounded in the real world. She's likely traveled a bit, and seen a lot.

Though you bring up another thing. She'd like to clean up the organization a bit. That implies that she has the power to do that. It also implies that an investigation can be opened into the organization itself...

She's a potentially interesting character, bringing many potentially interesting situations to mind. Providing she lives, that is.

[Elsh]

I think alkiera is right in understanding the power that the loreguards have over their society. Everything that people who are not of the masked know about Arcans comes from the loreguard, they have neither the information nor the social capital with which to counter the loreguards 'facts'. I believe that once Dana sees Haven her beliefs will crumble and she'll get a chance to be built back up.

[hoppy]

True, true. Not that it'll probably matter when they get the information. I remember something about Coldfoot using magic to enter/read her mind directly. And while she might be a little too much of an idealist, she's likely also quite grounded in the real world. She's likely traveled a bit, and seen a lot.

Though you bring up another thing. She'd like to clean up the organization a bit. That implies that she has the power to do that. It also implies that an investigation can be opened into the organization itself...

She's a potentially interesting character, bringing many potentially interesting situations to mind. Providing she lives, that is.

Well, that is not my impresion of danna. There are plenty of hints. So I am not going to spell it out for you.

[michaelsuave]

True, true. Not that it'll probably matter when they get the information. I remember something about Coldfoot using magic to enter/read her mind directly. And while she might be a little too much of an idealist, she's likely also quite grounded in the real world. She's likely traveled a bit, and seen a lot.

Though you bring up another thing. She'd like to clean up the organization a bit. That implies that she has the power to do that. It also implies that an investigation can be opened into the organization itself...

She's a potentially interesting character, bringing many potentially interesting situations to mind. Providing she lives, that is.

Well, that is not my impresion of danna. There are plenty of hints. So I am not going to spell it out for you.

Wow, well hoppy, there are lots of impresions we can get about danna, and there are always hints. I'd be interested to hear exactly what you think is obvious("spelled out") with danna? I've made the mistake of being firm on things I read in Fel's stories before, ie the god soul of shadow tarrin surviving, and Fel is anything but obvious, even here in the spoiler's thread. He doesn't want to lose his "most evil author of the world" award.

Personally, I think Danna is going to be surprised when she gets to havan and sees a working civilization. I think if anything, Danna uses her head, and her logic. I think, that just as with the loreguard's who raped the girl, she is not bound as fanatically with the loremaster's dogma as other loreguard/masters might be; that she could be a strong power for the arcan and the spirits after she learns that they aren't the "greatest evil" or wild stupid animals that she thinks they are. Besides, we all know that Fel is the greatest evil.

~Michael

[ANTIcarrot]

I think once Danna gets over her prejudice about arcans and can accept them as "people" and maybe understands the spirits a bit better, she'll come around and they will make a powerful pair looking out for arcans in the human lands..

Granted that she might have a rapid change of heart - but it's equally possible she might have some distressing revelations for Kyven too. So far he's yet to wonder why the shamans apparently only showed up after the end of the old world. In what way was the end of the world linked to the spirit's sudden interest in the physical world? (A cynical person might also ask, if the spirits are so wise, why the Arcans don't have machine guns by now.) Fel may have set up the Loremasters as being on a funky Power Trip, but he's also dropped some hints that the spirits might not be that much better.

[hoppy]

True, true. Not that it'll probably matter when they get the information. I remember something about Coldfoot using magic to enter/read her mind directly. And while she might be a little too much of an idealist, she's likely also quite grounded in the real world. She's likely traveled a bit, and seen a lot.

Though you bring up another thing. She'd like to clean up the organization a bit. That implies that she has the power to do that. It also implies that an investigation can be opened into the organization itself...

She's a potentially interesting character, bringing many potentially interesting situations to mind. Providing she lives, that is.

Well, that is not my impresion of danna. There are plenty of hints. So I am not going to spell it out for you.

Wow, well hoppy, there are lots of impresions we can get about danna, and there are always hints. I'd be interested to hear exactly what you think is obvious("spelled out") with danna? I've made the mistake of being firm on things I read in Fel's stories before, ie the god soul of shadow tarrin surviving, and Fel is anything but obvious, even here in the spoiler's thread. He doesn't want to lose his "most evil author of the world" award.

Personally, I think Danna is going to be surprised when she gets to havan and sees a working civilization. I think if anything, Danna uses her head, and her logic. I think, that just as with the loreguard's who raped the girl, she is not bound as fanatically with the loremaster's dogma as other loreguard/masters might be; that she could be a strong power for the arcan and the spirits after she learns that they aren't the "greatest evil" or wild stupid animals that she thinks they are. Besides, we all know that Fel is the greatest evil.

~Michael

I agree about her seeing haven. I don't think Danna is as grounded and sensible as you seem to, she seems more like a prodigy who has been sheltered by her position and possibly other things. I doubt Danna's unit was involved with the initial investigation(which probably was a white wash,) they were probably sent to find the equipment that was lost, and those who had it. The unit is probably used as reliable guards, and overt public searches such as they were conducting(to put a good face on the loreguard.)
Sorry for not explaining how I disagreed.I had a longer post that I got bored with writing, so I just fired off that thing.

[alkiera]

I agree about her seeing haven. I don't think Danna is as grounded and sensible as you seem to, she seems more like a prodigy who has been sheltered by her position and possibly other things. I doubt Danna's unit was involved with the initial investigation(which probably was a white wash,) they were probably sent to find the equipment that was lost, and those who had it. The unit is probably used as reliable guards, and overt public searches such as they were conducting(to put a good face on the loreguard.)
Sorry for not explaining how I disagreed.I had a longer post that I got bored with writing, so I just fired off that thing.

My personal impression is that she's very clever, very knowledgeable as far as human knowledge goes at this point, but she also has a sense of humor... and a bit of a romantic side. By romantic, I mean that she sees the Loreguard as a noble organization, fighting the good fight, working to advance civilization. Her dreams have occasionally been shattered, as in the issue with the loreguards who raped/killed the girl; and she doesn't ignore those things, but I don't know that I'd call her wise. In fact, Kyven notes when she's done something unwise when she climbs up the whip to him on the cliff in ch. 10. I disagree that shes been sheltered. She did know about the actions of the dead loreguards. She's good at what she does, confident, and kinda playful at times. She seems to think of investigation as a kind of game, her vs. the bad guys. I think that's part of why Kyven intrigues her.

I think the stuff from Ch. 12 is mostly her reaction to seeing Kyven as a Shaman. This has completely changed her opinion of him; him being a Shaman changed into a human somehow was one of her early guesses. While not correct, I'd guess that's her current assumption... and with the amount she's been told/brainwashed about how the Shaman are evil and all, she's unlikely to be rational about them for awhile. They need to engage her from a mental standpoint to work her past that, but that doesn't seem to be what they're doing. Maybe we'll see more in ch13, whenever that comes out.

[Mac The Knife]

From Chpter eleven"“That was Coldfoot,” she said with a wink. “Keeping an eye on the humans and gathering information for the Masked in his special way. Quite handsome, isn’t he?”
“I didn’t think so at the time, I was human when I met him,” he mused.
“Well, he is,” she giggled, then she lifted up from his shoulder and sniffed at the air. “He has been recalled, though. All the Shaman, everywhere, have been recalled. The spirits feel we are needed back home, and so we answer that call and obey.”

I assume that is when Kyven returns to human form,,, with all of the Shaman present, and all of Haven to go into an uproar,,,, and Dana to witness. And Toby??? How would the Blue Ring of Allamar react to him bringing back a human, claiming that he is actually an Arcan fox? It would appear that Toby has quite a bit of credibility for getting the job done, and if he can't get it done, than his excuse would be given some weight.

[GBLW]

I assume that is when Kyven returns to human form,,, with all of the Shaman present, and all of Haven to go into an uproar,,,, and Dana to witness. And Toby??? How would the Blue Ring of Allamar react to him bringing back a human, claiming that he is actually an Arcan fox? It would appear that Toby has quite a bit of credibility for getting the job done, and if he can't get it done, than his excuse would be given some weight.

Ah, but wouldn't it be more sensational for Kyven to return to Allamar withToby and allow himself to be sold- AS A SHADOW FOX, then calmly change into his human form?

You see I think Kyven will have a few extra abilities in short order- after all, he will be around several Shaman and he's smart enough to watch how they do their 'little tricks,' so very soon, he's going to be one VERY powerful individual. And if He does get sold in Allamar, he will probably be able to simply walk away, step into a shadow and disappear. If he does it AFTER he's been sold, Toby is paid, and goes home. Kyven follows Toby back to the Widow and when she is paid, he slips inside, steals the funds she got from his sale and uses it to hire Toby for further jobs. (Of course I'm just theorizing a future plot, with a few twists.)

[Mac The Knife]

Nah, the widow is done, she was part of the character development,,, However,,,, toby is being used as a credible witness. I can only assume that there are a few escapees in Haven that have dealt with Toby,,, and respect him as well,,,,, not fear him, but respect him. Danna is a different story,,, an unkown, only the Evil One knows what is in store for her,,,, ( I seen you lurking Fel).
Hopefully Fel doesn't go all New Testament on Kyven.

[Phantom]

I agree about her seeing haven. I don't think Danna is as grounded and sensible as you seem to, she seems more like a prodigy who has been sheltered by her position and possibly other things. I doubt Danna's unit was involved with the initial investigation(which probably was a white wash,) they were probably sent to find the equipment that was lost, and those who had it. The unit is probably used as reliable guards, and overt public searches such as they were conducting(to put a good face on the loreguard.)
Sorry for not explaining how I disagreed.I had a longer post that I got bored with writing, so I just fired off that thing.

My personal impression is that she's very clever, very knowledgeable as far as human knowledge goes at this point, but she also has a sense of humor... and a bit of a romantic side. By romantic, I mean that she sees the Loreguard as a noble organization, fighting the good fight, working to advance civilization. Her dreams have occasionally been shattered, as in the issue with the loreguards who raped/killed the girl; and she doesn't ignore those things, but I don't know that I'd call her wise. In fact, Kyven notes when she's done something unwise when she climbs up the whip to him on the cliff in ch. 10. I disagree that shes been sheltered. She did know about the actions of the dead loreguards. She's good at what she does, confident, and kinda playful at times. She seems to think of investigation as a kind of game, her vs. the bad guys. I think that's part of why Kyven intrigues her.

I think the stuff from Ch. 12 is mostly her reaction to seeing Kyven as a Shaman. This has completely changed her opinion of him; him being a Shaman changed into a human somehow was one of her early guesses. While not correct, I'd guess that's her current assumption... and with the amount she's been told/brainwashed about how the Shaman are evil and all, she's unlikely to be rational about them for awhile. They need to engage her from a mental standpoint to work her past that, but that doesn't seem to be what they're doing. Maybe we'll see more in ch13, whenever that comes out.

I get the feeling Danna's biggest problem is she's Trusted that what the Loreguard tells is the Truth.
She's just had a Very Rude Awakeing. but I can see that her eyes will soon be opened much much wider.

Right now she is feeling Hurt, Confused and Betrayed.
Top that all off with being Afraid for her life and what do you have?
She's been told all her Life that Shaman are Cold Blooded Killers. and she's belived it too.
It's the Old Truth....... if you've fallen off a Cliff you might as well Try to Fly.
Well She is trying to act brave. she's use to arcans and humans being afraid of her status as a Loreguard
and just do as she says or else. Problem is she dosen't really like any of the or else parts that could happen.

In a way the Spirits are taking her on a Walk of her own teaching her the truths of the real world beyond the
dogma of the Loreguards.

Toby is the real Enigma here he doesn't seem to fit...he just seems way too neutral. his only grace seems to be his honor and his word is his bond.

I assume that is when Kyven returns to human form,,, with all of the Shaman present, and all of Haven to go into an uproar,,,, and Dana to witness. And Toby??? How would the Blue Ring of Allamar react to him bringing back a human, claiming that he is actually an Arcan fox? It would appear that Toby has quite a bit of credibility for getting the job done, and if he can't get it done, than his excuse would be given some weight.

Ah, but wouldn't it be more sensational for Kyven to return to Allamar withToby and allow himself to be sold- AS A SHADOW FOX, then calmly change into his human form?

You see I think Kyven will have a few extra abilities in short order- after all, he will be around several Shaman and he's smart enough to watch how they do their 'little tricks,' so very soon, he's going to be one VERY powerful individual. And if He does get sold in Allamar, he will probably be able to simply walk away, step into a shadow and disappear. If he does it AFTER he's been sold, Toby is paid, and goes home. Kyven follows Toby back to the Widow and when she is paid, he slips inside, steals the funds she got from his sale and uses it to hire Toby for further jobs. (Of course I'm just theorizing a future plot, with a few twists.)

Kyven has those all ready he just doesn't have the strength or knowledge to utilize them yet if he asks the Fox she will grant him the power.
But She has Given him some abilities that he can use anything once he figures out what they are and He's the only Shaman that has them being he's a Shadow fox.
I still Say in keeping with the Stealth, Guile and deceit the bigest one would be the ability to Shapeshift.

Think about if he could switch between a Fox and a human or maybe even other Arcan types too.

As for him being Exposed as a Human/Arcan in the Blue ring I don't think the Fox would have allowed that to happen
If Kyven hadn't escaped she most likely have allowed or influenced him being sold to a furrier and then killed.
plus I dough She will allow him to be Exposed in general to the humans as a Shaman.....(at least not yet)
he's of far more use right now if it's not known that he's a Human Shaman however I can see several different scenarios
where exposing him as a Human shaman might just to the thing. but there are several things that come to mind as well
where that would just cause Kyven major suckage.

Back to Toby it could be he might just end up being a new John Brown. the interesting part will be if they wish him to retreve arcans, humans or both for them? ...
Another question just came to my mind is how do we know for sure Toby doesn't all ready work for the masked ?
I mean stop and think about it he found Kyven almost too quickly it almost like he's been one step ahead of Kyven all the way and if not for him Would Danna have been so quick and Hot to follow Kyven into the frontier?

Something to ponder there


Phantom

[Phantom]

Its a great twist with Dana though.

I sorta called it. I was pretty sure Clover wasn't gonna die; I figured someone would either take the bullet for her, or distract her from shooting at Clover. The answer was, of course, both. Kyven distracted her, then Claw took the death bullet for him.

The turnaround on the love interest is interesting, but I'm not sure its lasting. If Kyven becomes human again, it's entirely possible she'll forget he's a shaman(since he's human), or maybe she'll eventually accept him as-is. She's got to get over the anti-Shaman thing, though, which is going to be hard. All the humans are trained from birth that Shaman==Evil... I'm sure the Loreguard are trained to think that even moreso.

Curious exactly what the spirits have in mind for Toby and Danna. Maybe they really do want to hire Toby for a job. Danna tho... that's tough, unless she's a potential Shaman herself. Maybe they want to show her their great cities, then drop her back in human lands where no one will believe her? Or maybe she will be someone's servant in Haven for awhile.

Well Kyven wanted to get to know her better and she wanted the same chance with him ....

I guess now they will get just that ..... the real hard way....First they liked each other now they both hate the other
sounds a lot like love in the making to me.

Also Think about Kyven for a min .....an Arcan Give there life to protect his .....that's got to affect his Views a lot and Maybe a lot of the Arcans that wouldn't have accepted Kyven will now do so
If only because if they don't it could cheapen Claws Sacrifice.

Claw Sacrificed himself to save a Shaman........So they can't Say Kyven isn't a Shaman how.




Phantom

[ANTIcarrot]

I get the feeling Danna's biggest problem is she's Trusted that what the Loreguard tells is the Truth.
She's just had a Very Rude Awakeing. but I can see that her eyes will soon be opened much much wider.

Disagree. Her biggest problem right now is her belief that Kyven the Arcan Shaman KILLED the 'real' Kyven. It's not just her general knowledge in this case, she hates this particular shaman for a personal reason. It's probably going to be a tad tricky proving to her this hasn't happened. Any proof of transformation magic will just reinforce those views for example.

Right now she is feeling Hurt, Confused and Betrayed.
Top that all off with being Afraid for her life and what do you have?
She's been told all her Life that Shaman are Cold Blooded Killers.

There's a 99% chance that's not all she's been told... Since Kyven seems to have become quite enamored of harsh military reality during this story, let's remember another harsh military reality he hasn't really had to face up until now: When you spot a man or woman with 20lb of explosive strapped to their body, you do NOT stop and ask them, "Excuse me, but are you a good suicide bomber or a bad one? Is your cause noble or just? Would you possibly consider an alternative line of employment?" You shoot the bastard. Instantly and without warning, until they are dead.

Some enemy units are too dangerous to mess around with. Tanks. Suicide bombers. Battleships. MIRVs. Shamans. Whatever the philosophical or political reason the Loremasters dislike Shamans, this is the *practical* reason why they are shot on sight.

There are also a couple of other reasons why the Loremasters might not like or trust the spirit, or those that follow them.

GBLW:

You see I think Kyven will have a few extra abilities in short order-

I hope he won't. Well, apart from extra spells. Fels characters have a poor habit of pulling deus et machina out of their backsides every two seconds. I find it tricky to like any character that can suddenly and conveniently find a brand new I Win button any time they come across a bad situation. It's often much more fun when they have to think their way out of a situation. And that's why the 'Wikuni Constitution' remains my favorite part of the Firestaff story.

Phantom again:

I still Say in keeping with the Stealth, Guile and deceit the bigest one would be the ability to Shapeshift.

Thinking about similar creatures in other settings, his biggest gift might be to step into one shadow and out of another shadow - many miles away form the first one.

And in other news... Anyone care to place a wager or two:
*Arcans are origonally from Arkansas.
*If Danna and Toby can feel the Arcan's pain, they'll also be quite shocked and alarmed when the Arcans 'comfort' each other.